5150 diagnostic disks

[jfl5150]

:confused:
I am new to the forum, from Southern Germany
I just put together a 5150 (256k) from parts from other machines, with a Tandon HDD and a 10M ST412 FH HDD with original Xebec controller and original MDA
Works great, runs Lotus and Dbase....
I cant get my diagnostic disk images to work.
Image files I have are XTDGS225.dsk and ADIG202.dsk, image disks are created OK with rawrite2, but the diags program gets the computer to hang, and disks are not bootable.

[mbbrutman]

Be sure that the program you are writing the diskette images with is capable of writing single sided diskettes.

The images should be 160K in size - that is 40 tracks, 8 sectors per track, 1 side. Most programs assume a 360K drive, and they might be writing the 160K image incorrectly.

[Jorg]

I think something like FDImage should do it, see here:

http://www.fdos.org/ripcord/rawrite/


/OL (Welches Pfaffenhofen ist es, bei Ingolstadt?)

[jfl5150]

Jorg, yes it is between Ingolstadt and Munich, looks like the Playmobil village, we love it.
I tried Dskimage option 0:40:1:9 and fdimage with option 180k, images are created but diags still hangs...I am wondering if I have the right Advanced Diagnostic image file for the 5150 PC, would anyone know an image file as well as the image file spec (one, 2 sided..)

[Yzzerdd]

Images? Sure go to VintageIBM.net/5150_software and you'll find some. They are 1 sided images. 0:40:1:8 should work just fine, if the drive you are writing to is drive "A:"

OK, not ALL the images are 1 sided. But if the file size isnt 360K or the likes, and it is an image on that site, then they are 1 sided.

--Ryan

[mbbrutman]

Jorg, yes it is between Ingolstadt and Munich, looks like the Playmobil village, we love it.
I tried Dskimage option 0:40:1:9 and fdimage with option 180k, images are created but diags still hangs...I am wondering if I have the right Advanced Diagnostic image file for the 5150 PC, would anyone know an image file as well as the image file spec (one, 2 sided..)

That's your problem right there - there are only 8 sectors per track on those diskettes. You can tell this because the image is 160KB in size, not 180KB in size.

Use these options with dskimage: 0:40:1:8 .. that will work.

I wrote dskimage, and I provided at least one of those images to vintageibm.net, so I know it works.


Mike

[jfl5150]

So, the image files do not contain the original physical disk properties..
None of the image writers I used recognized that the original was 8 sectors per track, thanks for your help.
It worked fine with dskimage.
Just one word about repairing Tandon T100 floppy drives.
I got 4 units, and one had random read-write errors. Stepper motor is assembled to the head actuating arm with a small Torx screw accessible by removing the plexiglass window on the bottom of the drive and moving the head by hand until screw cap is visible. This screw was loose enough to allow the stepper motor to slip which created the problem. I found 2 out of 4 screws loose enough to create the problem when head was moved quickly by the controller, like initial floppy seek.
To realign, I loosened the screw completely, pushed the head back to the screw stop at the end of the rails toward the back of the drive and tightened the screw, no more errors since.

[mbbrutman]

Correct - most of the utilities do not store 'meta-data' that tells you what type of diskette image you are working with. Storing the meta-data would make it easier when writing back to a floppy drive, but every program would have it's own format for meta-data and then you would would not be able to use the program of your choice.

You can tell the format of the diskette fairly easily without meta data:

- 160KB file = 40 sectors, 8 cylinders per sector, 1 side
- 180KB file = 40 sectors, 9 cylinders per sector, 1 side
- 320KB file = 40 sectors, 8 cylinders per sector, 2 sides
- 360KB file = 40 sectors, 9 cylinders per sector, 2 sides

The 360KB format is the most common. The other formats are much older. I've never seen a PC with the original single sided Tandon drives - they are very rare. But IBM kept sending the diagnostics out on 160KB diskettes just in case there was an old machine out there that needed it.

I'm glad that dskimage worked. It's a quality product. :-) The Linux DD command will work with those images, as will many other tools. The more sophisticated tools like WinImage might be able to read those, but WinImage wants to store meta data which is a bad thing.

[mbbrutman]

Correct - most of the utilities do not store 'meta-data' that tells you what type of diskette image you are working with. Storing the meta-data would make it easier when writing back to a floppy drive, but every program would have it's own format for meta-data and then you would would not be able to use the program of your choice.

You can tell the format of the diskette fairly easily without meta data:

- 160KB file = 40 sectors, 8 cylinders per sector, 1 side
- 180KB file = 40 sectors, 9 cylinders per sector, 1 side
- 320KB file = 40 sectors, 8 cylinders per sector, 2 sides
- 360KB file = 40 sectors, 9 cylinders per sector, 2 sides

The 360KB format is the most common. The other formats are much older. I've never seen a PC with the original single sided Tandon drives - they are very rare. But IBM kept sending the diagnostics out on 160KB diskettes just in case there was an old machine out there that needed it.

I'm glad that dskimage worked. It's a quality product. :-) The Linux DD command will work with those images, as will many other tools. The more sophisticated tools like WinImage might be able to read those, but WinImage wants to store meta data which is a bad thing.

[per]

I have the data for the rest of the standard IBM floppy disk formats:

Media Density Cylndrs Sectors Sides ImgFileSize

3½ in Double 9 80 2 720*KB
3½ in High 18 80 2 1440*KB
3½ in High 21 80 2 1680*KB
3½ in High 21 82 2 1720*KB
3½ in Extnded 36 80 2 2880*KB

5¼ in Double 8 40 1 160 KB
5¼ in Double 8 40 2 320 KB
5¼ in Double 9 40 1 180 KB
5¼ in Double 9 40 2 360 KB
5¼ in High 15 80 2 1200*KB

Note: All formats do have 512 Bytes/Sector

I prefere to use Trixter's DISK2IMG to make floppy disk images, and Demonlord's IMG2DISK to write images to floppy disks. However, I've had some problems with DISK2IMG when I specify a custom filename for the image.

[Yzzerdd]

As for me, I fully support Mbbrutman's DSKIMAGE. It is a wonderful program that is very easy to use for Dos-savvy folks like myself. Any machine using DOS and standard BIOS calls can make and write images, providing it has a disk drive seperate from the one read/writing the image.

--Ryan