How perfect is perfect?

[TomFCS]

I have a question. How perfect is perfect?

I'm asking this because I've just finished breaking down and cleaning up a IBM PC Junior.

I'm really happy with how this project turned out so far, but in IMHO it would probably not be, by most folks, considered to be in "perfect" condition.

There are several flaws...

Small scratch on the center of the crt. (about 1/4" in length)
Larger scratch on upper right hand corner of front face plate. (about 1/2" in length)
Two small water stains on the original documentations cover.

Assuming that these flaws are minor, (and they are...) how much do they really subtract from the overall value of the computer?

After all, an audio guru might consider a recording with the scratches and pops of an original LP intact, more valuable than a cleaned up CD version.

So what's the best approach? Should you try and repair small defects? Touch up paint ect... That is assuming you did it very well, and the end result was barely noticeable to the human eye, or are slight "character flaws" considered just that, flaws that do indeed add a bit of "character"? Or is this pretty much up to the discretion of the owner?

Just curious,

Tom

[Vlad]

I've always looked at it as adding a bit of character but it all boils down to personal preference.

[lynchaj]

Hi,

IMO, "perfect" is just not applicable to microcomputers in any way which is part of their charm. When these machines came out *brand new* they were virtually all kludges made from whatever parts were available and cheapest. For example; take a look inside a few Kaypros... they vary wildly on their components internally. So do C64's as do most microcomputers. IBM was probably better than most (until you look at their architecture) and even they "slip streamed" in some variants.

I'd be surprised if there are two microcomputers ever made of any kind that are *exactly* alike. People obsess over details that just were barely considered if even noticed at all in the real systems at the time. Chip date codes, sources of manufacture, PCB revisions, plastic facade moldings, etc changed constantly throughout microcomputer history.

Look at the history of the Altair... Ed Roberts made the first commercial microcomputer (even that is debateable) basically out of whatever stuff he could afford and find in the surplus heap. With all due respect, the S-100 is an awful kludge and did not even approach stability or any sort of standard until the IEEE-696 machines (H/Z-100) came out towards the end (early 1980's). You can read on comp.os.cpm about S-100 termination issues that have plagued it continuously and *still does*.

I guess my point is there is no such thing as perfection in microcomputers and I wouldn't worry about it. You PCjr has whatever value you place on it. It sounds like a fine machine and I recommend you just enjoy it. Some defects are inherent and give microcomputers their character.

Thanks and have a nice day!

Andrew Lynch

PS, this is the best ST412 interface description I have seen: http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/seagate/ST412_OEMmanual_Apr82.pdf

[mbbrutman]

A PCjr - perfect by definition. You have done well ...

I clean things, and I might replace broken parts. But I don't go crazy enough to start doing cosmetic repairs.

Use it and enjoy it - I have a lot of projects for you. :-)

[Unknown_K]

I used to collect ROMAN coins and perfect meant of correct weight and in the condition they were when minted (the coins were made from hand cut and stamped blanks and no two looked the same).

I think the same thing for computers, they need to be in the same condition they were in when new. Do you need a perfect machine to use, not realy. Will a perfect machine be worth more then a beat up or used one, yes.

My collection of computers is for use, while I like a unit to look new in the end it doesn't matter much as long as it is functional and not falling apart.

[TomFCS]

Thanks for the excellent replies. Mostly similar in concept but with various angles based on the persons experiences.

I originally posted the question because I wanted to know what was considered proper/mainstream. But it seems that doesn't really matter, as it is all mostly about personal taste.

If anything, the answers to this question were more helpful to me in defining my own goals and expectations for this new found hobby.

So for the time being the scratches and dings stay just as they are. Upon further reflection. I think I may actually kind of like them! :)

lynchaj,

I always looked at microcomputers as nothing more than manufacture dates and model numbers. I really like your perspective on things. Very interesting, gave me something to think about.

Tom

[billdeg]

Roman coins eh? I have a collection (pardon the off-topic reply) here:
http://inventory.degnanco.net/index.cfm?company_id=30
-Bill

[billdeg]

One one hand you have this cut and dry approach:

Mint=unopened
near mint = opened and maybe tested once but otherwise still in the orig packaging and complete
excellent = missing some of the original packaging such as the plastic bags or twist ties for the cables, but otherwise a complete boxed system with few visible signs of wear
good = used and working, complete system with box, visible scratches, scuffs, some missing items (such as warranty card)
fair = unit works, you have the power supply, but nothing much else, no box
poor = untested, scuffed up, no box, missing manual, may or may not work, etc.

BUT
Here's the big question:
If an item is unopened but untested - is it mint? How do you know unless you know whether it works or not? Is part of the condition of a computer its functional status? I say yes!

That's why computers have to be "graded" differently than coins or baseball cards, because there is an operational status variable that also needs to be considered. What if you buy a "mint" computer system in box, open it and then find that it does not work? What if it's a TRS 80 Model 1 computer that needs repairs, and you have to screw through the warranty voiding 5th screw hole sticker to fix the system?

I say it's better to fix and reduce the "grade" than to leave non-working but near mint.

my 2 cents.

[Mike Chambers]

A PCjr - perfect by definition. You have done well ...

I clean things, and I might replace broken parts. But I don't go crazy enough to start doing cosmetic repairs.

Use it and enjoy it - I have a lot of projects for you. :-)

yep. cosmetics are for women to worry about. i personally think computers look nicest when you have the motherboard tacked onto the wall above the monitor. duct tape the PSU to the ceiling, hack together some cables and turn that thing on.

[Half-Saint]

IMO, perfect means no scratches, dents, missing parts/stickers or yellowing. I have an old HP Apollo workstation and I managed to scratch the faceplace while moving the computer around. It really pokes me in the eye every time I look at that scratch! :D

Cheers!
SainT

[Druid6900]

Regardless of what it looks like, if it works, it's a computer, if it doesn't, it's a paperweight.

[Vint]

yep. cosmetics are for women to worry about. i personally think computers look nicest when you have the motherboard tacked onto the wall above the monitor. duct tape the PSU to the ceiling, hack together some cables and turn that thing on.


I'm with Mike on this one, (and the vision of his humorous comments are right on.)

I just recently bought a Radio Shack PC 2 that has a bunch of scratches and even a ding that at first made me lightly cringe. Then as I pawed over it, I realized how much character this well used object possessed. I want something I can play with, not something I have to constantly worry about it's cosmetic condition. Oh I would be disheartened if the screen were scratched - something like that really gets in the way, but a few light case scratches are good battle scars.

Now I would never buy one of those computers with yellowed cases though, and I waited with apprehension over a few machines I'd bought (sight 'almost' unseen), from eBay. Hey, eBay digital pics come in all flavors and you can never be quite sure of any yellowing problem until you actually see the machine. I've been extremely fortunate in getting no machines with yellowed cases, although my Apple IIc power supply has a yellowed section, the computer itself is fine. I don't know what I'd do with a yellowed machine. Once you have it - - it's kind of 'your baby'. You gonna' throw the thing out for farting on your parade? I'd paint the thing! That's what I'd do.

I'm more into the beauty of the guts of machines than cases anyway. I like the insides. Circuit boards can appear like small cities you know. Electrolytic little can buildings, pc trace roads, ic apartment houses. Lookie here at my CoCo 2 innards - why it's a regular city in there I tell you:)

http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/picture.php?albumid=1&pictureid=12

[Yzzerdd]

I'm more into the beauty of the guts of machines than cases anyway. I like the insides. Circuit boards can appear like small cities you know. Electrolytic little can buildings, pc trace roads, ic apartment houses. Lookie here at my CoCo 2 innards - why it's a regular city in there I tell you:)
<pic removed, just look above>


Never looked at it that way--Just make sure no one tries to do you a favor by installing a pool!

--Ryan

[tezza]

I'm more into the beauty of the guts of machines than cases anyway. I like the insides. Circuit boards can appear like small cities you know. Electrolytic little can buildings, pc trace roads, ic apartment houses. Lookie here at my CoCo 2 innards - why it's a regular city in there I tell you:)

Yea, this is something I enjoy too. Circuit boards can be an art form. They are great things to marvel at.

As to the main topic, I don't need my computers pristine. My main consideration is that they should be complete (no missing keys), clean (no grubbiness, grime or dust) and most importantly, WORK.

If I can find something pristine, that's great. However, I'm not prepared to pay megabucks for it. As far as collecting is concerned, a bit of yellowing, and the odd scratch here and there doesn't bother overly bother me. It just shows these things have lived a life (like a lot of us on this forum). :)

Tez