wiki abuse

[hargle]

So I've just started using our wiki pages here as a place to put some information about various projects and things I'm interested in. the wiki is obviously very new, and very much underutilized. I think this is going to be a fantastic source for technical information once we start rolling.

There have been a few web pages created by bots for whatever nefarious purposes which I have cleaned up, but cannot delete the offending pages.

http://wiki.vintage-computer.com/index.php/Special:RecentChanges

Would it be possible to either implement some kind of captcha system, or perhaps even easier, grant me some users (like me) some admin rights so that these pages can be cleaned up when we get hit? I'm not a wiki pro by a long shot, but I think just a few of us with enough power to keep it clean might be a good solution.

[Erik]

Hargle is now an admin. Thanks!

I've deleted the offending pages.

Any other volunteers? :)

[mbbrutman]

I guess it's time for the other admins to sign up. :-)

[Vlad]

I guess it's time for the other admins to sign up. :-)

Just made an account there myself, I can help out.

[Terry Yager]

I'm in.

--T

[Erik]

I'm in.

What's your user name, T?

[Terry Yager]

Haven't got there yet. (I'm not very wiki-savvy either, still not sure how to create an account, but it's next on my list). When I do so, however, I'll use the same handle as here, ie, my own real name (does that count as a handle?). After that, I'll try to figger out how to submit new articles too (can't be that hard, I've done it before for Wikipedia, but damned if I recall how). Just gimme some time to tinker with it...

--T

[Erik]

No sweat and no rush. . . :)

I just figured that if it was in your signature and all. . . :P


Haven't got there yet. (I'm not very wiki-savvy either, still not sure how to create an account, but it's next on my list). When I do so, however, I'll use the same handle as here, ie, my own real name (does that count as a handle?). After that, I'll try to figger out how to submit new articles too (can't be that hard, I've done it before for Wikipedia, but damned if I recall how). Just gimme some time to tinker with it...

--T

[Terry Yager]

Got 'er done...now how 'bout a lil' coaching on how to start a new article (or at least a pointer to the page with instructions)? I'm getting pretty good at editing existing ones, but I need something to work with.

--T

[Terry Yager]

All right already, so I got my feet wet (or at least a toe). Just a test to see if I could figger it out:

http://wiki.vintage-computer.com/index.php/Homebrew_computers

--T

[lutiana]

I've got an account too. I am also trying to work out how to start a new article. I did add a link to the end of one that was there.

Once I do, I will write up a step by step on the networking, and then you guys can rip it to shreds and re-write it :D

[per]

I've got an account too. I am also trying to work out how to start a new article. I did add a link to the end of one that was there.

Once I do, I will write up a step by step on the networking, and then you guys can rip it to shreds and re-write it :D

do the following:

Enter the URL "http://wiki.vintage-computer.com/index.php/article" where article is replaced with the article name/headline of your choice
Click the "Create" tap on top of the page (next to "discussion" and "watch")
Write your article
Make sure that, when you are done, insert "[[Category:Chategory]]" (where Chategory is one of the chatogories on the main page) to the end of the article
Click "Save Page"

[mbbrutman]

I don't want to dampen anybody's enthusiasm, but the Wiki is a bit different than a forum posting system and I think we need to be much more rigorous about editing it. Accuracy of the information, spelling and grammar do count much more.

We haven't laid out the rules of the road yet. Just go slowly until we figure it out - it is new for us too. It has the potential to be a great resource but it requires more work.

[Erik]

And remember to check your ego at the door. Wikis are edited. A lot.

If you write it, others will change it. . . accept that.

[hargle]

wow, I had no idea I'd start such a gold rush to start wiki editing!

And, now that I'm drunk with power with my admin privileges, the first thing I did was go in and edit Per's contribution. muhahahah! (don't worry Per, it was minor stuff, and I also realize that I could have done that without admin rights)

heh.

[per]

And, now that I'm drunk with power with my admin privileges, the first thing I did was go in and edit Per's contribution. muhahahah! (don't worry Per, it was minor stuff, and I also realize that I could have done that without admin rights)

heh.

Isn't that the whole point of a wiki? (BTW, I forgot to add a "stub" note on the article, how many templates do we got?)

[carlsson]

And remember to check your ego at the door. Wikis are edited. A lot.
Perhaps you admins and moderators need to edit forum posts a bit more often so we get used to it? ;)

Frankly though, I have barely never touched a wiki. Part is because I haven't studied the syntax and method of input, but also because I rarely can come up with something meaningful to share. I'm much better at answering questions than explaining something without an asked question.

I suppose the VC wiki will allow definitions not already backed up on another web site, i.e. factual information without a source URL? Certainly errors should be corrected, but if more than one person can vouch for the information is correct, there should not be a need for the same information to appear elsewhere as well?

[mpickering]

Can I help out? I write a ton of Wiki documentation on the job and I'd be willing to put up articles on various systems and links to information on them.

Matt

[TandyMan100]

My username is the same as my forum handle. I can help if you want. I've done a bit of stuff on Wikipedia and Wikiquote. (mostly doctor who, also helped out with most of the articles on vintage computing, windows 3.1)

[linuxlove]

alright, i'm in for vintage computing wiki :D

[barythrin]

Anyone can usually add content to a wiki, that's kinda the point so have at it :-) The admin rights are just deleting pages, and other administrative functions like deleting pages, etc. All users are more than welcome to add content.

[Erik]

Can I help out?

Please! :)

[lutiana]

... I think we need to be much more rigorous about editing it. Accuracy of the information, spelling and grammar do count much more.


I agree, this is actually the reason why I have held off on it for a while. I have been collecting links and data etc

When I have amassed the knowledge, supporting links and other relevant info I will sit down and write it. An of course, once I have it will be up for editing and refining.

I also intend to write the bulk of it in Word and run it through grammar and spell check and re-read it several time. Ultimately I will copy and paste it from there.

Anyone know if there are open source wiki writing tools out there? Sort a WYSIWYG for wiki tags etc.

[barythrin]

Actually a lot of wiki's have a WYSIWYG editor/option. Not sure if this one does, it didn't look too terribly bad though, I fixed just a typo or two in one page (was just making sure I wasn't completely talking fluff in my earlier message lol) and it seemed pretty friendly as far as having buttons for most common text formatting options. The only thing that throws me off with wiki apps is the way they all do links (honestly don't understand what's so taboo about html and teaching people how to do real html) but it has examples, etc.

[mpickering]

I must be odd since I turn off the WYSIWIG option when writing Wiki documentation. I generally need more control than the WYSIWIG options provide. The markup isn't hard to learn in my opinion and once you're used to it, fast to write without having to break stride to highlight and select an option from a menu.

Matt

[linuxlove]

well i noticed the following spam on the main page by the IP 67.149.138.4:

Spammer's work now removed
I went and redid the main page; i'm note sure how others will like it but it IS a wiki, so others can make it looks better.





(Please don't ban me, i hate spam as much as anyone else!)

[linuxlove]

More spam, on the main page by the IP of 69.250.253.190:

Spam removed, once again

EDIT: It looks like the spammer went and changed all the old versions of the main page, so someone needs to add the categories back, so it looks like someone needs to add the catagories back again >>
ANOTHER EDIT: I made a mistake; i didn't look far back enough in the history of the main page... shows how dumb i am :P

[mbbrutman]

I'm reading some of the Wiki entries and I'm bothered by some of them, and for good reason.

Here is one example:


The IBM PCjr was IBM's futile attempt to make the PC inexpencive to home users and children. The PCjr was mainly compatable with all the applications that you could get on the PC and XT; due to the fact that it had an 8088 CPU inside.

Not to be overly picky, but there are a few faults here we could learn from:


'futile attempt' is not objective. Not even close. Lets stick to facts. An adjective like futile does nothing to add to the meritcs of the article.
'home users and children' - home users yes, but also small business users too. And definitely not children - in 1983 nobody had the coin to let a small child play with a $1500 machine.
Spelling counts ...


Another example:


The 20MB hard drive was large over the XT's 10MB Hard drive, but the drives were manufactured by Computer Memories and those drives failed early in life. To date, we know of one AT with its original Computer Memories hard drive inside -- Erik Klein's AT.



If you are going to throw something out there like the fact that most of those drives failed early in life, then you should back up the claim with the reason or some evidence. In this case the claim is true, but the story behind it fills in the context for the reader.
Erik (bless him) is not the only owner of a CMI drive that still works. This kind of statement doesn't belong in an objective, factual article.


One last example:


The Osborne 1 computer was a portable computer introduced in 1981. While it cost $1,500, you got around $2,000 worth of free software. The Osborn 1 was not IBM PC compatible, and so this computer vanished into history, along with the proposed Osborn PC. Here are the specs:


The $2000 dollar claim comes from the advertising for the machine, but obviously is a stretch of the truth. Could they have afforded to lose $500 per machine?
Yes, it was not PC compatible. As a matter of fact, in 1981 most personal computers were NOT PC compatible. The leader is lead to believe that the Osborne 1 was banished to the bit bucket because of this. It is more correct to say that most of the 8 bit systems were obsoleted by machines featuring 16 bit CPUs, and the Osborne 1 was just one of many such machines that became obsolete.


My intent here isn't to abuse people. But I think we need to do better, and can do better. Everybody should take some time to post about a machine they know and love and are an expert in, and you should think like you are the editor of a large encyclopedia while you are writing your article. I look forward to seeing the Wiki fill in more.


Mike

[Terry Yager]

Ok, I gave it my best shot, editing nearly every article (no offense guys). Some had just a simple spelling or grammatical error or two, while (a few) others had to be practically rewritten from scratch (Hargle's the winner, I didn't have to touch his article). I'm pretty sure most of us have spelling checkers available, so please use them.
As Mike says, please stick to facts, not opinions. Statements such as, "ComputerX is the best thing in the whole history of computing!" or, "ComputerY was a complete flop!" don't belong in the wiki. That's what these forums are here for.
Also, please don't cut/paste verbatim from Wikipedia or other webpages unless you are the original author of that information. If ya gotta plagiarize, re-word it so that it looks original.

A couple of my favorites:

'The Commodore 64 was designed to compete against the IBM PC'
'if you compressed text down to a small size, you could get grpahics out of an MDA adapter'

...and those are some that were written in English, I won't even attempt to translate the ones in Martian!

--T

[lutiana]

So instead of working today, I decided to throw caution to the wind and work on some wiki things.

I added a few links on a few pages, but spent a fair amount of time on this 5160 article (http://wiki.vintage-computer.com/index.php/IBM_PC_XT_(5160))

I think it looks a lot better and has more information on it, although I think my grammar and spelling are ok on it (re-read it about 100 times) I do invite all to go over there and check it out and proof it read it.

[mpickering]

I'd like to add some general articles on getting started with vintage collecting, what you'll need, collecting styles, system repairs and the like. I'd be using my own experience as a guide but try to provide some useful information to a would-be collector who's never been exposed to the older hardware.

Would that be useful?

Matt

[TandyMan100]

I'd like to add some general articles on getting started with vintage collecting, what you'll need, collecting styles, system repairs and the like. I'd be using my own experience as a guide but try to provide some useful information to a would-be collector who's never been exposed to the older hardware.

Would that be useful?

Matt
That would be great. Here's my two bits:

If space is an issue, go for mainly laptops. A C64, Sinclair, or something occaisionaly, but mostly laptops like the Model 10x, 1000 series, or Kaypros.

[barythrin]

Actually a guide (or maybe more correctly "recommendations") for collecting and guide to repairing items would be an excellent resource. I guess where (if) you can you'd want to link to facts or other reference material but that'd be pretty neat.

Also maybe taking apart systems (anatomy guide j/k) would be a nice/easy guide for some folks to write. It's nice to come across that stuff when fixing certain systems with a nice warning regarding short cables that are connecting the top and bottom pieces, etc.

[lutiana]

Also maybe taking apart systems (anatomy guide j/k) would be a nice/easy guide for some folks to write. It's nice to come across that stuff when fixing certain systems with a nice warning regarding short cables that are connecting the top and bottom pieces, etc.

Very good idea. Step by step "dissection" with pictures would be awesome. Especially on older laptop or compact systems.

[Terry Yager]

So instead of working today, I decided to throw caution to the wind and work on some wiki things.

I added a few links on a few pages, but spent a fair amount of time on this 5160 article (http://wiki.vintage-computer.com/index.php/IBM_PC_XT_(5160))

I think it looks a lot better and has more information on it, although I think my grammar and spelling are ok on it (re-read it about 100 times) I do invite all to go over there and check it out and proof it read it.

I hates to edit so mercilessly, but I just gots to do it...

--T

[lutiana]

I hates to edit so mercilessly, but I just gots to do it...

--T

It don't bother me none. Its what the entire concept of a wiki is about. I am curious about what needs to be done to it.

Keep in mind a lot of my writing skill and grammar is closer to the UK style than the US style, having been raised in South Africa. it took me a year to stop spelling color as colour.

[Terry Yager]

"The first one got some solder pads for a socket..."
Ain't exactly the Queen's English. Hell, it ain't even American Standard...more like 'Ebonics' or American Redneckian...

--T

[lutiana]

Ain't exactly the Queen's English. Hell, it ain't even American Standard...more like 'Ebonics' or American Redneckian...

--T

Yeah, I missed that one.

I had been working on the page for a few hours at that point and could not see the trees for the forest I think. Its obvious now :D

EDIT: That was not actually my copy, I think that was added by Per but I am not sure. So the way wikis work adds a nice level of denial ability.

[per]

Yeah, I missed that one.

I had been working on the page for a few hours at that point and could not see the trees for the forest I think. Its obvious now :D

EDIT: That was not actually my copy, I think that was added by Per but I am not sure. So the way wikis work adds a nice level of denial ability.

Yea. That was mine. Didn't sleep that much the night before...

I could just have explained it as "32 empty solder-pads labeled 'spare' and 'U21'."

[Terry Yager]

Well, per only gets smacked half as hard, since English is not his first language.:twisted:
(We really do appreciate all contributions, thanx, guys).

--T

[lutiana]

I fixed it, though I am not sure what TD2 is, so am unaware if it should be refered to as just TD2 or "a TD2" or "an TD2"

[per]

I fixed it, though I am not sure what TD2 is, so am unaware if it should be refered to as just TD2 or "a TD2" or "an TD2"

It's a time delay. A black squared box that gets an input and waits a bit before it send it out one of the other pins. TD2 is an one-input-one output one, but an exemple of a larger one is TD1. TD1 is a larger one with several outputs. TD1 is used for DRAM timings, TD2 seems to have something to do with DMA timings.

I know everything about the DRAM/memory interface (else, I wouldn't know about all the jumpers), most about the timer interface (speaker, IRQ0, memory refresh), most about everything else, EXCEPT DMA. The DMA part of the scematics is kindof confusing, lines going everywhere and flip-flops scanned in low quality. But the most imporiant factor is that I really haven't bothered learning in detail how DMA works.

[Terry Yager]

Cleaned up per's recent edits to the XTIDE page, too. I don't mind playing 'Grammar Police', but someone else'll have to handle the 'Spelling Police' duties, I ain't so good at it, and neither is my spell-checker, apparently. It insists that 'form' is spelled correctly, when everybody knows it should be spelled 'from'...

--T

[per]

Cleaned up per's recent edits to the XTIDE page, too. I don't mind playing 'Grammar Police', but someone else'll have to handle the 'Spelling Police' duties, I ain't so good at it, and neither is my spell-checker, apparently. It insists that 'form' is spelled correctly, when everybody knows it should be spelled 'from'...

--T

Wopsie, the clock just passed 1AM... Time to get to bed (Full-day math test tomorro--- eeeh... Today).

[Terry Yager]

Just in case anyone needs to bone-up on their grammar, here's a link:

http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/index.php?title=Grammar&oldid=3590541

--T

[Terry Yager]

And, speaking of grammar, has anyone seen that TV commercial in which the young lady is bragging up the great education she received from ITT Tech? You know, the one that begins with the phrase: "Me and my mom are very close..."
Sure does inspire me to spend my money there!

--T

[mbbrutman]

For those of you editing the Wiki ....

Anonymous users keep coming in and editing the main page. I block the IP addresses as it happens and undo the changes. I think we'd probably all be better off if registration for the Wiki was required. Any thoughts on that?


Mike

[per]

For those of you editing the Wiki ....

Anonymous users keep coming in and editing the main page. I block the IP addresses as it happens and undo the changes. I think we'd probably all be better off if registration for the Wiki was required. Any thoughts on that?


Mike

I'm positive.

At least for the main page (IIRC, it is possible to lock just certain pages from anonymous users).

[lutiana]

For those of you editing the Wiki ....

Anonymous users keep coming in and editing the main page. I block the IP addresses as it happens and undo the changes. I think we'd probably all be better off if registration for the Wiki was required. Any thoughts on that?


Mike

I would say it would be fine to block anonymous users from editing anything. Its not hard to get an account.

[Erik]

For those of you editing the Wiki ....

Anonymous users keep coming in and editing the main page. I block the IP addresses as it happens and undo the changes. I think we'd probably all be better off if registration for the Wiki was required. Any thoughts on that?

If you can figure out how then do it.

If I can figure out how I'll do it. :)

Thanks,

[mbbrutman]

I'll do it. I think I already know how, I was just waiting to pull the trigger.

[Erik]

From what I found it required an added line in the localsettings file which I just did.

I also enabled image uploads. :)

Is/was there a way to do it through online admin configuration?

[cosam]

I noticed I've been repeating myself on the forums lately so I added few troubleshooting/repair-type pages today. If someone would like to give them an editorial once-over that'd be great.

I also somehow managed to upload a duplicate image (http://wiki.vintage-computer.com/index.php/File:800px-Microchips.jpg). Someone want to remove it? (I don't have the perms.)

[mbbrutman]

Done.

And the wiki is a perfect place for FAQs on repair and related topics ....

[lutiana]

I also somehow managed to upload a duplicate image (http://wiki.vintage-computer.com/index.php/File:800px-Microchips.jpg). Someone want to remove it? (I don't have the perms.)

I seem to have done the same thing.

I've noticed that large images don't work right on the Wiki, they seem to need to be 1024x768 or lower res to work right.