Updating Old Games

[CP/M User]

Okay feel free to respond if you
disagree with me. IMO, posting
messages in relation to old classic
games & porting them to modern
day OSes such as Windoze are
off-topic in a newsgroup based on
an old computer.

Sorry about flaming (I was really
offended off to see people who
read in comp.sys.amstrad.8bit,
comp.sys.cbm & comp.sys.sinclair
supporting this), the question for
which I'm sorry about for being so
blunt still stands because I'll still
think it's off topic.

However I'll try & make it clear to
those here & those who have
followed the link from
comp.sys.amstrad.8bit, comp.sys.cbm
& comp.sys.sinclair. I declare I do
not care what some writers do with
their OSes, in other words write your
Dizzy games, Rainbow Island, Silkworm
Midnight Resistance clones for it, but
please I don't want any part of it. I'm
happy with my Amstrad versions of
Dizzy, Rainbow Island, Silkworm or
MIdnight Resistance, that aspect of
IBMs programming is inapproarate in
an 8bit Newsgroup.

Cheers.

[Thomas Hillebrandt]

Agreed! :shock:

Real men don't emulate...They use the original machines...

(Whether it be an Amstrad, Commodore, Sinclair, Atari or Texas version of Pac Man is another matter 8) )

People are free to emulate or port or whatever at their discretion. But you're absolutely right - the discussions about portings and emulations have no place in a group or forum that is about the original machines!

[CP/M User]

"Thomas Hillebrandt" wrote in message:

> Agreed! shock

> "Real men don't emulate...They use the original machines..."

Heh! I'm kinda guilty of that myself, but I still have the ol'
machine & still use it when need be.

> (Whether it be an Amstrad, Commodore, Sinclair, Atari or
> Texas version of Pac Man is another matter 8) )

The posts were strickly about games which are very good in
their own right, I didn't think they would need updating, some
were arguing that they need to be updated for those machines.

There was nothing wrong with my Amstrad version of Rainbow
Islands, Silkwork or Midnight Resistance! :-)

> People are free to emulate or port or whatever at their
> discretion. But you're absolutely right - the discussions
> about portings and emulations have no place in a group
> or forum that is about the original machines!

I'm okay when it comes to emulating the games on an
Amstrad emulator as such, but I was more or less complaining
that if they wanted to update it for CP/M-86, DOS, Linux, OS/2,
Windows etc etc, then it would be inapprorate for that group.

Geez, some people! :-(

[ravuya]

There are plenty of places for discussing remakes; the forum on remakes.org is the perfect place to discuss remaking games for newer systems.

I want my old computer boards to be all nostalgia, all the time. ;)

[CP/M User]

"ravuya" wrote in message:

> There are plenty of places for discussing remakes;
> the forum on remakes.org is the perfect place to
> discuss remaking games for newer systems.

A couple of usenet groups have them too I think.
However, as a matter of interest to people who
are generally interested in remakes, people tend
to post links for this software in usenet groups for
machines which had games made for them a long
time ago.

I think it's such a sensetive issue though, when
someone writes a remake of that game (for a newer
more powerful machine) & posts the results in an 8bit
usenet group, then the issues of relevance comes into
effect. I don't mind powerful computers when they are
used to help an older earlier machine, but you really
have to question yourself in terms of where will it end?
Usenet was designed so it would be on-topic, but it's
really a fine line between promoting a remake for
another machine & writing something for that computer
itself.

On the plus side, people believe that in order to get
people interested in those early games, playing a
remake will get them interested enough to play the
original. More than likely though, to post it where
people of a certain machine which have a certain
game made for it, would mean that more than likely
people have played the original! ;-)

Cheers.

[Unknown_K]

The remakes are never as fun as the original (try playing dune 2000 if you loved the original dune 2).

I dont have a problem with emultion if you dont have the hardware yet and are not sure you want it.

I have an original 6 switch atari 2600 purchased new in the late 70's/early 80's with 20 games. I still use an emulator (on my dreamcast console with all the 2600 games ever issued on 1 cd) for the games I dont have or want to test out before I buy the cart. Its kind of impossible to have every peace of software and hardware for every system you own.

Still I am a firm believer in using the original software on the original hardware when available, and I stay away from remakes and crappy console conversion for the PC.

[vic user]

The remakes are never as fun as the original (try playing dune 2000 if you loved the original dune 2).

Oh, Dune 2!!!

I killed a mouse playing that, and also had that damn music in my head when I used to go to sleep.

When I had it, a friend of mine came over once, and we were playing it all night. I ended up going to bed because I had to go to work the next morning, My friend said he would stay for another 15 minutes then see himself out. When I wok up, he was still playing it!

Myabe that's why I couldn't get the music out of my head :)

Chris

[Unknown_K]

I liked the game so much that I purchased a new boxed copy recently (original 4 floppy version with all the docs not the cd rerelease)

[vic user]

Oh, I envy you at the moment.

Floppy version is how I originally purchased it.

Wicked game!

I would wish you fun, but that seems unnecessary!

Chris

[CP/M User]

"Unknown_K" wrote:

> The remakes are never as fun as the original
> (try playing dune 2000 if you loved the
> original dune 2).

> I dont have a problem with emultion if you
> dont have the hardware yet and are not sure
> you want it.

> I have an original 6 switch atari 2600
> purchased new in the late 70's/early 80's with
> 20 games. I still use an emulator (on my
> dreamcast console with all the 2600 games
> ever issued on 1 cd) for the games I dont
> have or want to test out before I buy the cart.
> Its kind of impossible to have every peace of
> software and hardware for every system you
> own.

> Still I am a firm believer in using the original
> software on the original hardware when
> available, and I stay away from remakes and
> crappy console conversion for the PC.

As funny as it may seem, lots of Amstrad CPC
games were converisons of Spectrum games.
The Amstrad's have the ability of of using the
same screen size as the Spectrum, which you
could say is a form of emulation. But their all
8bit systems, so I guess there's no hard
feelings.

I got under my goat when someone (who still
continues to do it), discovered a way of
announcing a conversion of a classic 8bit
game in 8bit newsgroups for an entirely
different system (the IBM!), but lots of people
seem to be okay with this & simply implied
that it were better. Sure it could be so true,
that lots of people who still love 8bits have
got themselves into more powerful machines
& playing their games on that instead.
Honestly, I didn't care about that, more over
it annoyed me to see this advertised in such
groups, when other newsgroups exist for this
kinda thing.

Cheers.

[Unknown_K]

I imagine a few people who played the 8bit Pirates! game would probably want to play the latest on their new machines so thats why people advertise the new games in the old 8bit newsgroups. Its like targeting an old vette owner with literature for a new vette.

[carlsson]

I dunno about c.s.a.8bit, but to some extent in c.s.c and on daily basis in c.s.s, messages are off-topic much more than announcing a remake. If your favourite game was to be remade but still on the original platform, would that fit within the forum?

A remake speaks to three groups of people:

1. Those who love any remake because they are remakes, no matter which game it is.
2. Those who used to like the old game.
3. Those who like to play (new) games.

Group 1 is reached on remakes.org and other dedicated remake forums, group 2 is reached through classic gaming forums and group 3 is never reached, as they will think any game not utilizing gazillions of polygons heating their Radeon 10000 to water boiling temperatures is not worth looking closer at.

When it comes to Usenet, every group has a charter once written as a set of rules or guidelines how to use the group. Some groups are moderated, but the three mentioned here are not. I follow all three, and in particular the Amstrad group already seems to be a low traffic group. Maybe most of its readers want it like that, and then I see why you're objecting to a potential increase in volume.

[Unknown_K]

I just hate all the spam and trolling in the newsgroups. Most of the older newsgroups dont have much chatter going on because its just the diehards who visit them and they have few new things to say. If you post an honest question (that isnt covered in the FAQ) people tend to come to life and respond, otherwise its dead.

[CP/M User]

"carlsson" wrote:

> I dunno about c.s.a.8bit, but to some extent in
> c.s.c and on daily basis in c.s.s, messages are
> off-topic much more than announcing a
> remake. If your favourite game was to be
> remade but still on the original platform, would
> that fit within the forum?

In my view, it's not suitable, unless the subject was
clearly marked as Off-Topic. In c.s.a.8bit, they have
this different way of marking stuff as Off-Topic with
[i], while others choose to use [OT] which is clearly
more defined.

I don't say much for c.s.s, unless it's in relation to
the Jupiter Ace, which ironically is also OT, since
these machines are simular to the Sinclairs, but
entirely different system! However if I correctly
recall, c.s.s has this much wider acceptance level,
where if something is distantly related to the
Spectrum then it's allowable. In this case people
there are saying that a remake of an early game
for the Spectrum is allowable, because people
actually believe that if they play the remake, then
it would encourage them to play the original. Okay,
that's fair, I guess, when you have a group of
dedicated people who still stop at nothing at playing
with their machines. But it just seems to open the
doors to all this other system stuff, which is quite
large & unfortunately for myself, downloaded it
thinking it was for my ol' 8bit.

But other problem, is that since I'm still using a Pentium
166Mhz computer & can't afford a new computer, most
of the software won't work. It was good to play a
remake of a early classic Chuckie Egg in 3D (for DOS),
but I wouldn't expect to see a message in c.s.a.8 saying
that, which more or less defeats the purpose of a.g.f.

Sure lots of others can play it if they have the right
hardware, but were talking about a group, which has a
wide bandwidth of people with different computers
(mostly IBM compable), lots of people who have the
latest would say that an ol' remake of a DOS game is
unsuitable, yet it seems to work well on my system.

> A remake speaks to three groups of people:

> 1. Those who love any remake because they
> are remakes, no matter which game it is.
> 2. Those who used to like the old game.
> 3. Those who like to play (new) games.

Group 1 & 3 could so easily be taken to a.g.f or
if the game is $hareware, then taken to the
approrate group in that case as that seems to
be what their there for. As for Group 2, that
seems understandable, but if it doesn't work,
then they have wasted time downloading it,
then it could be some game for some system
most don't even use. Say there's this Tetris
clone for CP/M-86 which I could tell people
about in c.s.a.8, or it could be changed to be
any system, DOS, OS/2, GEM, Windows 2.xx
(I recall seeing a game of Life for this system)
which Amstrad users would be interested in,
oh but don't try running on Win 3.xx or Later
as Win 2.xx is quite different! That would be
quite funny, I should tell all those 8bit users
about this stuff, as it seems to be up their
alley! ;-) This is what I mean, by saying that
advertising remakes opens all sorts of doors.

Oh but you might be saying that no-one writes
stuff for these systems anymore, occasionally,
I'm still porting stuff to CP/M! ;-) The necessary
tools are also downloadable for this stuff too.

> Group 1 is reached on remakes.org and other
> dedicated remake forums, group 2 is reached
> through classic gaming forums and group 3 is
> never reached, as they will think any game not
> utilizing gazillions of polygons heating their
> Radeon 10000 to water boiling temperatures is
> 'not' worth looking closer at.

Unfortunately, the remakes I've comed across
seem to be too powerful for my Pentium! ;-)

> When it comes to Usenet, every group has a
> charter once written as a set of rules or
> guidelines how to use the group. Some groups
> are moderated, but the three mentioned here
> are not. I follow all three, and in particular the
> Amstrad group already seems to be a low
> traffic group. Maybe most of its readers want it
> like that, and then I see why you're objecting to
> a potential increase in volume.

The Amstrad group is the result of remakes!! This
is what happens when people find better remakes
of their favourite game, though you're everyday
computer is simply more advanced. The Sinclair
groop seems to be the opposite, since it seems to
except this broader stuff! :-)

Cheers.

[carlsson]

If your favourite game was to be remade but still on the original platform, would that fit within the forum?
In my view, it's not suitable, unless the subject was clearly marked as Off-Topic.

Hm.. did I understand you correctly there, that new Amstrad software simulating old Amstrad software should not have any legitimite space in an Amstrad newsgroup? If that's your viewpoint, you're really retro.

But other problem, is that since I'm still using a Pentium 166Mhz computer & can't afford a new computer, most of the software won't work.

:cry: In this case, I'd think you are in a minority (and yes, I don't feel sympahty anymore as I just upgraded my home PC from 200 to 1667 MHz). Besides, not all news servers take alt.* groups, so these has much worse distribution.

[Terry Yager]

"carlsson" wrote:

But other problem, is that since I'm still using a Pentium
166Mhz computer & can't afford a new computer, most
of the software won't work.

Cheers.

Walmart sells a 1.4 gHz for $200.00, complete with operating system. (I'm saving up my pennies, hoping they don't discontinue this bargain before *I* cn afford it.) Check out this link, they have at least two different systems fr under $200.00:

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=106562&path=0%3A3944%3A3951%3A41937%3A106562


--T

[CP/M User]

"carlsson" wrote:

>> If your favourite game was to be remade but
>> still on the original platform, would that fit
>> within the forum?

> In my view, it's not suitable, unless the subject
> was clearly marked as Off-Topic.

> Hm.. did I understand you correctly there, that
> new Amstrad software simulating old Amstrad
> software should not have any legitimite space
> in an Amstrad newsgroup?

Well, I didn't say that, I just said if they want
to post there, then it should advise the readers
that it's Off-Topic (because it is!).
It's like remaking a Windows program for the
Amstrad, they could post it into the Windows
newsgroups!

> If that's your viewpoint, you're "really" retro.

Well yeah, retro is my hobby, I don't care too
hoots about modern computing.

>> But other problem, is that since I'm still using
>> a Pentium 166Mhz computer & can't afford a
>> new computer, most of the software won't work.

> ;-( In this case, I'd think you are in a minority
> (and yes, I don't feel sympahty anymore as I
> just upgraded my home PC from 200 to 1667
> MHz). Besides, not all news servers take alt.*
> groups, so these has much worse distribution.

Well yeah, but it's not just about having the cash
to upgrade, I've decided to focus on the retro
side of things, if everyone else needs to upgrade
then that's their problem, but since I don't really
need to, I can play around with the things left
behind which haven't been discovered in these
computers! ;-)

Cheers,
CP/M User.

[Terry Yager]

Well yeah, retro is my hobby, I don't care too
hoots about modern computing.

Well yeah, but it's not just about having the cash
to upgrade, I've decided to focus on the retro
side of things, if everyone else needs to upgrade
then that's their problem, but since I don't really
need to, I can play around with the things left
behind which haven't been discovered in these
computers! ;-)

Cheers,
CP/M User.

I think I've figured out the main difference between you and me. You like to run CP/M on PC-compatible hardware, and I like to run PC-Dos on CP/M compatible hardware. Either way, we're both into retro computing.

--T

[CP/M User]

"Terry Yager" wrote:

> I think I've figured out the main difference
> between you and me. You like to run
> CP/M on PC-compatible hardware, and I
> like to run PC-Dos on CP/M compatible
> hardware. Either way, we're both into
> retro computing.

Not quite, I do like to run CP/M on my Z80
emulator & machine, but well, there's so
many things you could do & still be into
retro computing! :-)

Cheers,
CP/M User.

[Terry Yager]

Yeah, I went thru a phase where I played around with Z80 emulators, but it just wasn't the same...so I dragged out my trusty Kaypro again after 5 yearz in storage.

--T

[CP/M User]

"Terry Yager" wrote:

> Yeah, I went thru a phase where I played around
> with Z80 emulators, but it just wasn't the same...
> so I dragged out my trusty Kaypro again after 5
> yearz in storage.

Oh I haven't really seen a Kaypro emulator
specifically, which is why I thought they were
ordinary Z80 emulators which are a pretty
standard affair, but I would have though that
if the Kaypro was made into machine specific
emulator then other tricks could be done.
Surely there must be some hardware tricks the
Kaypro can do?

The emulator I mostly use is a early version of
Caprice, which does a fine job of emulating any
of the Amstrad CPC computers (not CPC Plus
though). It can even do CP/M-80 & CP/M Plus,
though CP/M Plus isn't perfect you need to
insert a disk into drive B before booting up
CP/M Plus, so it can detect Drive B, apart from
it's fine.

Cheers,
CP/M User.

[carlsson]

Hm.. did I understand you correctly there, that new Amstrad software simulating old Amstrad software should not have any legitimite space in an Amstrad newsgroup?
Well, I didn't say that, I just said if they want to post there, then it should advise the readers that it's Off-Topic (because it is!).
Ok, ok. Me wonders what is on-topic in a such newsgroup then? :?

[CP/M User]

"carlsson" wrote:

>>> Hm.. did I understand you correctly there,
>>> that new Amstrad software simulating old
>>> Amstrad software should not have any
>>> legitimite space in an Amstrad newsgroup?

>> Well, I didn't say that, I just said if they want
>> to post there, then it should advise the readers
>> that it's Off-Topic (because it is!).

> Ok, ok. Me wonders what is on-topic in a such
> newsgroup then? :?

Oh well, I'll just have to shut up in cases like this,
since I'm just one guy with a big mouth ! ;-)

Cheers,
CP/M User.

[Terry Yager]

Oh I haven't really seen a Kaypro emulator
specifically, which is why I thought they were
ordinary Z80 emulators which are a pretty
standard affair, but I would have though that
if the Kaypro was made into machine specific
emulator then other tricks could be done.
Surely there must be some hardware tricks the
Kaypro can do?

Cheers,
CP/M User.


Oh yes, there are several Kaypro-specific emulators out there in webland. I don't remember which ones I have tried, tho. Mostly I've used plain vanilla Z80 emulators. MYZ80 was my favorite-it just seemed more "authentic" than others. If ya wanna check out some Kaypro stuff, a google search on keywords "Kaypro emulator" will turn up quite a few.

As far as any special tricks the Kaypro is capable of, there just aren't any. Just straight, natural CP/M 80 and that's it. Nothing like the color graphics and other features of your Amstrads. Well, actually some models of Kaypro do have "hi-bit" block graphics, but those are very primitive. Very few programs take advantage of them anyways, so they are mostly useless.

--T

[CP/M User]

"Terry Yager" wrote:

>> Oh I haven't really seen a Kaypro emulator
>> specifically, which is why I thought they were
>> ordinary Z80 emulators which are a pretty
>> standard affair, but I would have though that
>> if the Kaypro was made into machine specific
>> emulator then other tricks could be done.
>> Surely there must be some hardware tricks the
>> Kaypro can do?

> Oh yes, there are several Kaypro-specific
> emulators out there in webland. I don't
> remember which ones I have tried, tho.
> Mostly I've used plain vanilla Z80 emulators.
> MYZ80 was my favorite-it just seemed more
> "authentic" than others. If ya wanna check
> out some Kaypro stuff, a google search on
> keywords "Kaypro emulator" will turn up
> quite a few.

Okay it might be worth a look! :-)

> As far as any special tricks the Kaypro is
> capable of, there just aren't any. Just
> straight, natural CP/M 80 and that's it.
> Nothing like the color graphics and other
> features of your Amstrads. Well, actually
> some models of Kaypro do have "hi-bit"
> block graphics, but those are very
> primitive. Very few programs take
> advantage of them anyways, so they are
> mostly useless.

It would be interesting to see what kinds of
block graphics they are, as quite a few IBM
games started with block graphics (since
the mono) wasn't capable of true graphics.

Cheers,
CP/M User.

[Terry Yager]

I wrote a little proggy that will dump the graphics chars to the screen...Ill have to see if I cn get you a copy somehow

--T

[CP/M User]

"Terry Yager" wrote:

> I wrote a little proggy that will dump the graphics
> chars to the screen...Ill have to see if I cn get
> you a copy somehow

Sounds interesting.

Cheers,
CP/M User.

[Terry Yager]

"Terry Yager" wrote:

> I wrote a little proggy that will dump the graphics
> chars to the screen...Ill have to see if I cn get
> you a copy somehow

Sounds interesting.

Cheers,
CP/M User.

I figger the easiest thing is just send ya the source code and you cn key it in yourself, using yr favorite text processor, then assemble and load it to create the .com file. Should work with any CP/M-80 machine that does block graphics. YMMV...

mvi e,20
mvi c,2
push d
call 5
pop d
inr e
mov a,e
cpi ff ;change this to 7f for machine that don't have graphics chars
jnz 102
mvi c,8
call 5
ora a
jz 100
ret


The prog, when run should show all ascii characters, scrolling the screen to display a "barber pole" effect. To freeze the display hit ctrl-s. To quit the prog and perform a warm boot hit ctrl-c.

--T

[CP/M User]

"Terry Yager" wrote:

>>> I wrote a little proggy that will dump the graphics
>>> chars to the screen...Ill have to see if I cn get
>>> you a copy somehow

>> Sounds interesting.

> I figger the easiest thing is just send ya the source
> code and you cn key it in yourself, using yr favorite
> text processor, then assemble and load it to create
> the .com file. Should work with any CP/M-80
> machine that does block graphics. YMMV...

<prog snipped!>

> The prog, when run should show all ascii characters,
> scrolling the screen to display a "barber pole" effect.
> To freeze the display hit ctrl-s. To quit the prog and
> perform a warm boot hit ctrl-c.

Thanks, when I have a bit of spare time, I'll get a
Kaypro emulator & try your program out.

Cheers,
CP/M User.

[Terry Yager]

.

Thanks, when I have a bit of spare time, I'll get a
Kaypro emulator & try your program out.

Cheers,
CP/M User.

Ok, just be sure the emulator supports graphics, or modify the code accordingly. Also, I frgot to mention the prog has one minor bug in it. If you hit any other key besides Ctrl-S or Ctrl-C, the program will run away and you'll have to hit the reset button to regain control of your machine. This behavior is because when you hit a key, the ASCII value is placed in the A-reg, and that sets the zero flag, causing the program to begin looping forever. I don't yet know how to fix this, but I'm working on it...

--T

[CP/M User]

"Terry Yager" wrote:

>> Thanks, when I have a bit of spare time, I'll get a
>> Kaypro emulator & try your program out.

> Ok, just be sure the emulator supports graphics, or
> modify the code accordingly. Also, I frgot to mention
> the prog has one minor bug in it. If you hit any other
> key besides Ctrl-S or Ctrl-C, the program will run
> away and you'll have to hit the reset button to regain
> control of your machine. This behavior is because
> when you hit a key, the ASCII value is placed in the
> A-reg, and that sets the zero flag, causing the
> program to begin looping forever. I don't yet know
> how to fix this, but I'm working on it...

Sorry, I can't really help, I'm imaging that your code
is 8080, which is one of the languages I don't know a
lot about. Perhaps some folks in alt.folklore.computers
or comp.os.cpm might know the answer to that since
they know a bit about 8080. I don't know if pushing
& pop the A-reg is the answer (I heard it was quite a
task doing that).

Good Luck with that,
CP/M User.

[Terry Yager]

Sorry, I can't really help, I'm imaging that your code
is 8080, which is one of the languages I don't know a
lot about. Perhaps some folks in alt.folklore.computers
or comp.os.cpm might know the answer to that since
they know a bit about 8080. I don't know if pushing
& pop the A-reg is the answer (I heard it was quite a
task doing that).

Good Luck with that,
CP/M User.

Yeah, 8080...you cn assemble it with CP/M's ASM.COM, then convert it to binary with LOAD.COM to create the executable .com file.
I hate to bother the geniuses on usenet with such a trivial problem, besides, I learn a lot more just playing around with the program on my own.

--T

[CP/M User]

"Terry Yager" wrote:

> Yeah, 8080...you cn assemble it with
> CP/M's ASM.COM, then convert it to
> binary with LOAD.COM to create the
> executable .com file.

Okay, thanks.

> I hate to bother the geniuses on
> usenet with such a trivial problem,
> besides, I learn a lot more just
> playing around with the program on
> my own.

Well some I know, do like to help in
any way they can, which is why they
read there. But if you think you can
fix it then I guess that's all that really
matters.

Cheers,
CP/M User.