Erik
July 23rd, 2003, 08:48 AM
I mentioned this documentation registering effort on the ccTalk mailing list and got the following response (amongst others):
Hi,
>> I finally have a scanning system setup here for archiving documents.
>
> On a tangentially related note, we've just started an effort at the VC
> Forum to track scanned documents.
Ahh, but why limit yourself to just scanned documentation? In terms of systems
preservation, typically I imagine that the documentation that *doesn't* get
scanned is the more useful as it's for the rarer machines and harder to come
by. Problem is there's less incentive to scan documentation for machines with a
low production volume, and for more complex or specialist machines the
documentation can be huge (I catalogued all the Torch stuff I have and there's
well over 13,000 pages - no way I'm scanning that! :)
Collectors might not be willing to scan in everything they own - but they might
be willing to make it known that they have paper copies of xyz and so therefore
could look up information on somebody's behlaf if needs be. Could be invaluable
for bringing less common machines back to life again.
This won't work for those of us who constantly trade machines back and forth
(and there's nothing wrong with that!) but I imagine lots of us have
collections that only ever get added to, or have machines that won't (likely)
ever be traded or sold on.
Experience has been that the classiccmp list - whilst invaluable - isn't always
the best source of information, plus posts with questions get missed etc.
> Think of it as an index to available online documents of interest to
> vintage computer collectors.
just drop the 'online' bit :-)
What data do you actually store? I ended up with the following for my stuff:
Related manufacturer
Page format / type
Issue / date
Author
Notes
Location
Quantity
Source
Part number
Size (pages, approx)
Most of those are optional. 'Location' is just something I use to tell me where
things are when they're stored in a binder or whatever - for a system used by
several people it could be dropped (or kept private from other users). 'Source'
tells me where I got xyz from and when - I've found that to be useful to know
in the past. Again, could be private data. 'Size' is handy to know for when
somebody asks whether you could scan something - gives a good idea of effort
involved!
For a system shared between users I'd probably add a 'Related machine' column
too, and it'd of course need an 'online location' field and some sort of user
contact details too. Some of those fields would be common to multiple entries
for the same document, others on a per-item basis. ('date entry added' might be
nice too)
I only thought of this about a month ago and have been too busy to make a start
on it other than run a few ideas by Tony (from the classicmp list). Initial
thought was to use something like Hypersonic as the database; the software
footprint is only a few hundred KB, plus it's Java so portability is less of a
problem as is interfacing to some sort of web-based system.
One step at a time and all that, but of course it doesn't end with
documentation, but could also be extended to systems, software, ROM images and
the like (a lot of ROMs must be close to failing in classic machines these days
and not many people make an effort to archive those!)
Put these thoughts on your site if you think it makes sense; I'm happy to
bounce ideas around with people.
Getting people to actually submit data is of course the hard part :-) I
imagine those with rarities are the ones who'll be interested in this, and
they're precisely the people who need to be attracted to an effort like this.
> It's just in its infancy, but I think it's a great idea
Same here. I just think limiting things to online data doesn't help the
preservation movement as much as it could - but it does help those with
more-common machines who want to get a bit more out of them.
cheers
Jules
I think that this is an excellent extension of the idea, so this new forum has been created for folks to post available documents that they haven't yet, or may never scan. Please only post documents that you'd be willing to either copy or lend out for copying to assist another in need.
Erik
Hi,
>> I finally have a scanning system setup here for archiving documents.
>
> On a tangentially related note, we've just started an effort at the VC
> Forum to track scanned documents.
Ahh, but why limit yourself to just scanned documentation? In terms of systems
preservation, typically I imagine that the documentation that *doesn't* get
scanned is the more useful as it's for the rarer machines and harder to come
by. Problem is there's less incentive to scan documentation for machines with a
low production volume, and for more complex or specialist machines the
documentation can be huge (I catalogued all the Torch stuff I have and there's
well over 13,000 pages - no way I'm scanning that! :)
Collectors might not be willing to scan in everything they own - but they might
be willing to make it known that they have paper copies of xyz and so therefore
could look up information on somebody's behlaf if needs be. Could be invaluable
for bringing less common machines back to life again.
This won't work for those of us who constantly trade machines back and forth
(and there's nothing wrong with that!) but I imagine lots of us have
collections that only ever get added to, or have machines that won't (likely)
ever be traded or sold on.
Experience has been that the classiccmp list - whilst invaluable - isn't always
the best source of information, plus posts with questions get missed etc.
> Think of it as an index to available online documents of interest to
> vintage computer collectors.
just drop the 'online' bit :-)
What data do you actually store? I ended up with the following for my stuff:
Related manufacturer
Page format / type
Issue / date
Author
Notes
Location
Quantity
Source
Part number
Size (pages, approx)
Most of those are optional. 'Location' is just something I use to tell me where
things are when they're stored in a binder or whatever - for a system used by
several people it could be dropped (or kept private from other users). 'Source'
tells me where I got xyz from and when - I've found that to be useful to know
in the past. Again, could be private data. 'Size' is handy to know for when
somebody asks whether you could scan something - gives a good idea of effort
involved!
For a system shared between users I'd probably add a 'Related machine' column
too, and it'd of course need an 'online location' field and some sort of user
contact details too. Some of those fields would be common to multiple entries
for the same document, others on a per-item basis. ('date entry added' might be
nice too)
I only thought of this about a month ago and have been too busy to make a start
on it other than run a few ideas by Tony (from the classicmp list). Initial
thought was to use something like Hypersonic as the database; the software
footprint is only a few hundred KB, plus it's Java so portability is less of a
problem as is interfacing to some sort of web-based system.
One step at a time and all that, but of course it doesn't end with
documentation, but could also be extended to systems, software, ROM images and
the like (a lot of ROMs must be close to failing in classic machines these days
and not many people make an effort to archive those!)
Put these thoughts on your site if you think it makes sense; I'm happy to
bounce ideas around with people.
Getting people to actually submit data is of course the hard part :-) I
imagine those with rarities are the ones who'll be interested in this, and
they're precisely the people who need to be attracted to an effort like this.
> It's just in its infancy, but I think it's a great idea
Same here. I just think limiting things to online data doesn't help the
preservation movement as much as it could - but it does help those with
more-common machines who want to get a bit more out of them.
cheers
Jules
I think that this is an excellent extension of the idea, so this new forum has been created for folks to post available documents that they haven't yet, or may never scan. Please only post documents that you'd be willing to either copy or lend out for copying to assist another in need.
Erik