nes is a piece of crap [Archive] - The Vintage Computer Forums

Bill_Loguidice

April 21st, 2006, 07:56 AM

It's a simple $7 - $10 fix that can be performed by anyone with a screwdriver. The pins in the 72-pin cartridge connector get dirty and or loose. Simply replace the 72-pin cartridge connector and your NES will be as good as new and will likely not encounter the problem again for some time. The "blowing on it" trick work because moisture from your mouth gets on the contacts helps with the connection, but obviously over time this will corrode things. You can also simply open up your NES and clean the 72-pin edge connectors with an eraser and try to bend the pins back in place, but it's easier just putting the new part in in my experience.

DOS-Master

April 21st, 2006, 07:59 AM

yeah but the repair wears down the games more. solution

nex (found at eb games)

Bill_Loguidice

April 21st, 2006, 08:13 AM

No, the repair doesn't wear the games down more. And unfortunately, the Nex and the Chinese NES clones are not 100% compatible and in fact can glitch many common games. You're best off with a real front or top-loading NES (front is 100% compatible with everything) and just replacing the pin connector in the former. It's as simple as that.

alexkerhead

April 21st, 2006, 08:37 AM

yeah but the repair wears down the games more.
wtf? I have never seen a worn down edge on a nes cartridge, those things are nearly invensible. Invest $10 and get a new socket.

Starshadow

April 21st, 2006, 09:29 PM

this is why the top loader made in the last six months of the NES's marketlife is so saught after, its not only rare, but its as reliable as a Genesis or a SNES

DOS-Master

April 22nd, 2006, 09:04 AM

I got my nes on opening day! drove all the way to New York to get it. by the way genesis isn't reliable but snes is

Bill_Loguidice

April 22nd, 2006, 10:48 AM

I've found similar reliability between the Genesis and SNES. The least reliable of the cartridge-based consoles will always be the original NES, otherwise most other systems just need to have clean contacts for reliable operation...

DOS-Master

April 22nd, 2006, 05:35 PM

the atari 2600 is 100 percent reliable

sfcspanky

April 25th, 2006, 07:17 PM

Ahh... they just dont make em like they used to!!

BTW- that NEX thing looks awesome! I'm thinking about getting one (I dont have an NES and have been trying too long to get one- lol).

Vlad

April 25th, 2006, 07:29 PM

You could have just borrowed mine all this time....

-VK

Starshadow

April 25th, 2006, 08:40 PM

by the way genesis isn't reliable but snes is

ok between that and your Saturn comment you must hate Sega. The Genesis , like many toploader consoles, is very reliable. The only Genesis that shows a hint of unreliability is the Genesis 3, which is actually built by Majesco, not Sega.

Terry Yager

April 25th, 2006, 10:53 PM

I dunno one way or t'other, the only one I've seen up close was already broken when it got to me. The repair looks pretty simple, but I just haven't got a round toit.

--T

80sFreak

April 26th, 2006, 06:15 AM

but I just haven't got a round toit.

--T

Here ya go --
One (http://www.kidsturncentral.com/roundtoit.htm)
Another (http://www.a-ylifecoaching.com/images/content/tuit5.jpg)

Take your pick! :D

Cheers,

80sFreak

Bill_Loguidice

April 26th, 2006, 07:37 AM

Ahh... they just dont make em like they used to!!

BTW- that NEX thing looks awesome! I'm thinking about getting one (I dont have an NES and have been trying too long to get one- lol).

Again, I strongly caution you to read all the reviews and gotchas regarding the NEX. There are compatibility issues with some pretty common games. The same thing goes for all those $20 Chinese NES clones available on eBay (I have one of those as a backup to my standard NES with new 72-pin connector). If you like it for the controllers, there are newly made very nice wireless gamepads available for both the NES and SNES that are very inexpensive and work well.

bbcmicro

June 14th, 2006, 11:05 AM

Thought I'd dig up this ol' thread instead of starting a new one

Got my NES today, sold as fully working, unfortunately the 72 pin ZIF socket doodah is broken. No games can be played unless I remove the cover and put some pressure on the game to the left. Even then, only Castlevania works properly and its very uncomfortable. The thing that bugs me was the guy had the cheek to send me repair instructions along with it, and wrong ones at that, they just chatted on about dirt and things. Cleaned everything wiht cottonbud and meths, no change.

So, just a word of warning! I do intend to get a new connector and do the fix, but I would like some advice on where to get one to the UK, would shipping from US be exspensive?

Bill_Loguidice

June 14th, 2006, 11:11 AM

You can get the 72 pin connectors for as cheap as .99 plus shipping through eBay here in the US (I also just did a search on eBay UK, and it looks like the same basic price). Lots of the retro stores have them as well. Even at prices like that and with shipping, it shouldn't be that much of a challenge getting one.

atari2600a

June 14th, 2006, 11:37 AM

I've been tinkering w/ the idea of buying broken NES's, replacing the connectors, & then selling them on eBay for $20. Sound like a good idea?

Bill_Loguidice

June 14th, 2006, 12:28 PM

I've thought about that too, but frankly, I haven't really seen broken NES's online. Ironically, a lot of the ones on eBay, for instance, advertise "new 72-pin connector installed", so it's already being done. However, if I come across one at a garage sale or something, I'd definitely jump on it in any case. Once I found out a few years back that that flashing and blowing issue was due to the connector and connector's were readily available, that pretty much sealed the deal for me. I have yet to come across an original style NES having any other issues...

atari2600a

June 14th, 2006, 12:30 PM

just search on eBay "broken nes" & you'll find whole lots of them being sold for dirt cheap!

bbcmicro

June 14th, 2006, 02:37 PM

Theres a few on the UK eBay at the moment, it'll only cost me about £10, rounding up.

atari2600a

June 14th, 2006, 02:59 PM

How much would that be in chutney? :p

Seriously, as a rough estimate, how much s 10 pounds in US$? Side Egyptian pounds, I don't have a good knowledge of forgien BL$NG.

DOS-Master

June 20th, 2006, 05:32 PM

this is why the top loader made in the last six months of the NES's marketlife is so saught after, its not only rare, but its as reliable as a Genesis or a SNES

It's not that rare and not that expensive. You can get a good nes toaster for 30 to 40 bucks in good condition.

bbcmicro

June 23rd, 2006, 12:12 PM

Replacement part arrived today, everything works fine now (hurrah!)

£10 is about $18, everything is more expensive over here (or so it seems...)

atari2600a

June 23rd, 2006, 01:00 PM

If you want a cheap NES, just buy a Japanese ripoff Famicom. They go for dirt cheap on eBay. In fact, If I recall correctly, at Walgreens (Walgreens=An American drug store, for all non-American readers), they sell a game-system-thing that has like 50 built-in games & stuff. I don't own one (I will when I have the money), but It probobly has a Famicom port on it, & if not, it can probobly easily be hacked to put a 72-pin connector on it (Assuming it uses an NES-on-a-Chip-things).

Bill_Loguidice

June 23rd, 2006, 01:03 PM

I think they're Chinese and Korean rip-offs rather than Japanese. I in fact have one. I find it's not as compatible as a true NES (just like Messiah's NEX (http://www.playmessiah.com/onlinestore/) is nicely designed, but not fully compatible). It's easy enough to find a converter for the 72-pin to play Famicom games...

80sFreak

June 23rd, 2006, 03:54 PM

I find it's not as compatible as a true NES (just like Messiah's NEX (http://www.playmessiah.com/onlinestore/) is nicely designed, but not fully compatible).

I thought the Nintendo-On-A-Chip had been out for so long no that it was compatible with everything... Oh well.

From their website:
Q: Will it support S-Video?
A: No, because the old software won't support S-video. We could have converted the AV outputs to S-video but it would have added a lot of cost and given no benefit to the video quality.
???
I don't understand how old software needs to support S-video? I know there is the s-video mod for an Atari 2600 that gives you a much better picture! Maybe the NEX can be modified to output S-Video?

Cheers,

80sFreak

atari2600a

June 23rd, 2006, 04:29 PM

WT--um, I mean, What the heck!? I KNOW S-Video is possible on the NES...Wait a minute, I see the problem. It's an NOAC, not a real 6507 & whatever the NES GPU was called, & therefore the S-Video signal is combined into Composite while still in the IC. S-Video Output would require them to manufacture a slightly different chip.

They made a bad mistake calling it a "Software" limitation. Any & all NES/Famicom software are capable of S-Video, & so is an authentic NES, with minor custom wiring of couse!

Atari

July 15th, 2006, 06:29 AM

My old front loader NESes drove me crazy for years. The NES top loader is so much better, but it is rare and expensive. I found my top loader in the garbage!!

atari2600a

July 15th, 2006, 06:32 AM

(Gasp, my swarn mortal enemy, Atari! *Pulls out Phaton T disruptor* (an illegal weapon in Star Trek: TNG))

Assuming you didn't read the previous pages, you know you can fix that problem by buying a new 72-pin connector for $10 right? No soldering, no mess, just unscrew some stuff, slide out the old, pop in the new, rescrew, then BAM! It works again!

You'll also want to clean the connectors of your cartridges w/ some rubbing alcohol or an erasor...

EDIT: Oh, wait, DROVE! I didn't read carefully, so sorry if the above response seems too obvious...

CP/M User

July 15th, 2006, 05:00 PM

Sounds like you -both- don't have Atari's! :-D

CP/M User.

atari2600a

July 15th, 2006, 05:16 PM

Hey, you're talking to someone that has a Heavy AND Light Sixer, plus an 800.

I also have a middle-eastern rippoff (which I've torn apart 3 years ago, as a futile attempt to adapt it to NTSC, but then the games on the onboard ROM where PAL, which was something that exceeded my knowledge at the time...)

CP/M User

July 15th, 2006, 05:24 PM

atari2600a wrote:

> Hey, you're talking to someone that has a Heavy AND
> Light Sixer, plus an 800.

Yes I know, I found it amusing to see two Atari's back to back
talking in a Nintendo thread! :-)

> I also have a middle-eastern rippoff (which I've torn
> apart 3 years ago, as a futile attempt to adapt it to
> NTSC, but then the games on the onboard ROM where
> PAL, which was something that exceeded my knowledge
> at the time...)

Yeah, that's a big pain - particularly for people like myself
who has a 7800.

CP/M User.

atari2600a

July 15th, 2006, 06:06 PM

You mean you have a 7800 that you've torn apart in a futile attempt to adapt it from PAL to NTSC?

CP/M User

July 15th, 2006, 06:42 PM

atari2600a wrote:

> You mean you have a 7800 that you've torn apart in a
> futile attempt to adapt it from PAL to NTSC?

No Sorry, I mean't I was disappointed to learn about how I
couldn't play the NTSC games on my PAL 7800. I nearly ordered
a NTSC game when I got the wrong advice from one company. At
the time this was at another place - fortunately before the
order was sent I checked with the mob deliverning the game &
they advised me that I couldn't play NTSC games on my 7800 -
even if I had a NTSC compatable telly.

CP/M User.

atari2600a

July 15th, 2006, 06:58 PM

Hey, at least there's emulation!:p

An NTSC 7800 unit w/o any cables or games (& probobly sold as-is) should go for around $5 on eBay if you want to check there... (An AC Adapter shouldn't be a problem, seeing your PAL 7800 uses almost identical circuitry)

carlsson

July 16th, 2006, 08:35 AM

If Nintendo hadn't implemented regions and lock-out chips, I wonder if Atari would have put it in the 7800.

atari2600a

July 16th, 2006, 10:33 AM

Nintendo put the NES10 lockout chip in the NES because Nintendo had a HUGE piracy problem in Japan. Try to find an original Famicom copy of a game on eBay, it's almost impossible. I doubt Atari had that big of problem...

carlsson

July 16th, 2006, 03:17 PM

At least I have magazines advertising a special cartridge copier for 2600 cartridges. It was intended to be only used with special games developed by the same company who made the copier, so you could go to the store with a cartridge and have it re-programmed for a fee with another of their offered games. Supposedly you could read off the contents of any 2600 cartridge and use the device to copy it onto this special (EPROM?) cartridge. Maybe it never took off much, but I'm sure Atari, Activision and the other official game manufacturers were not happy about it.

atari2600a

July 16th, 2006, 03:54 PM

CP/M User

July 16th, 2006, 04:38 PM

Atari made their own form of security against piracy
particularly on the 7800 - which only a couple of games
developers had the ability of producing games for the 7800.
Unfortunately, this also restricts who can make games for it -
as it stands people have turned to the 2600/5200 consoles
cause the encryption system used on the 7800 is impossible (or
lets shall we say - a nightmare) to crack! :-D As far as I
know the system security system was used worldwide - the
NTSC/PAL thingy was another thing. What's interesting to note
is my console is marked PAL - B on the back, was there a PAL -
A? what's the difference there?

CP/M User.

dongfeng

July 16th, 2006, 04:39 PM

Download them through the phone line? Sounds cool, but I imagine the initial cost of the setup would be horrific!

The Acorn BBC computer had a similar feature with it's Teletext adaptor (do you have Teletext in the States?). With this adaptor you could connect your Beeb to a TV aerial and download a fair amount of software through the TV for free! It was pretty cool in it's day, and I think it lasted until 1989 or so. Spent many lunchtime at school playing with that! They used to show a TV series (I think it was called "Introduction to Microcomputers" or similar) and the programs demonstrated in the episode could then be downloaded via this adaptor.

CP/M User

July 16th, 2006, 04:41 PM

No - I don't do eBay - besides, I'd only look foolish with two
7800 consoles! :-(

I only keep what I need & don't double up on equipment - on
account of the space.

CP/M User.

Terry Yager

July 16th, 2006, 05:02 PM

I think we may have had TeleText or similar for awhile, but then again, it may have been vaporware. All I recall is all the hype, when it was s'pozed to be TheNextBigThing, but it never really caught on. (Didn't they use the 'blanking interval' to broadcast simultaneously with regular TV signals?)...

--T

mbbrutman

July 16th, 2006, 05:15 PM

There was also an internet service for the 2600 (Yes, really!) that allowed you to download games for a monthly fee. It was before it's time & didn't last too long. Obviously, the idea survived & now we have GameTap!

Just thought I'd say that, since the subject of rare Atari peripherals came up...

Can you provide a reference?

The Atari 2600 had enough time turning on, never mind doing dialup over a modem. It has exactly 128 bytes of RAM. Not Kbytes, but bytes.

The 2600 was long gone (and almost the entire Atari company) long before most people had Internet access at universities, never mind the general population. Even a straight dialup bbs type system would be a major challenge for a 2600.

atari2600a

July 16th, 2006, 05:28 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gameline

Never underestimate my knowledge of the Atari 2600...

Terry Yager

July 16th, 2006, 05:34 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gameline

Never underestimate my knowledge of the Atari 2600...

Have you ever seen the cart/cassette interface, which included several cassette-based gamez? (My kidz used to have that setup. before it waz stolen).

--T

atari2600a

July 16th, 2006, 05:40 PM

Yes, in fact that's what most of the current 2600 developers use today! On Atariage, they sell CD's full of programs for use w/ it! I'm getting ready to leave, so I don't have time to think of what it was called...

Atari also developed a peripheral called "Mind Link" which was a headband that measured microimpulsive movements on your head. Sucks they never manufactured & sold it...

mbbrutman

July 16th, 2006, 06:21 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gameline

Never underestimate my knowledge of the Atari 2600...

Ok, so the device is a modem that connects to a custom dial-up service. Here is your original quote.

There was also an internet service for the 2600 (Yes, really!) that allowed you to download games for a monthly fee. It was before it's time & didn't last too long. Obviously, the idea survived & now we have GameTap!

Just thought I'd say that, since the subject of rare Atari peripherals came up...

It's not an internet service. Not even close. And I'm willing to bet that the cartridge that had the modem in it had quite a bit of smarts, probably more than the 2600. It would have to have the modem, code to dial the server, a temporary storage area for the game and high scores, etc.

I never underestimate your knowledge. Unfortunately, I'm usually dead on. ;-)

atari2600a

July 16th, 2006, 09:38 PM

mbbrutman

July 17th, 2006, 05:46 AM

First point:

Why don't you go look up the definition of 'internet', 'Internet', and then compare those to a proprietary dial-up service and tell me the answer?

Internet != internet != (arbitrary dialup service not even based on TCP/IP)

Second point:

If the cartridge is smarter than the original machine, does that really count? By all descriptions it has a CPU, quite a bit of storage, a modem, and code to dial this service and interact with it. That's like saying my mouse (which also probably has more intelligence than a 2600) is surfing the web because it's connected to a laptop that makes it possible.

I'm not arguing that the service existing. You said it was an internet service for the Atari 2600. It's actually a proprietary dialup service using a device that is far smarter than an Atari 2600 to get games transferred to it. Quite a difference.

Bill_Loguidice

July 17th, 2006, 09:01 AM

What makes it Not an internet service? It's a subscribable service, & it's over the Internet, put 2 & 2 together, Internet+Service=Internet Service, right?

I'm sure the cart has it's own CPU, RAM, (of course) ROM, maybe an EPROM (I don't know, I didn't look up if the games saved onto an EPROM or if they're just stored in RAM...)

GameLine was NOT an Internet service. With all due respect, I'm afraid you tend to mangle facts more than a little bit. It's rather ballsy of you to claim all this knowledge of the Atari 2600 when you get a lot of the basics wrong. GameLine worked over a standard phone line and dialed into a proprietary service. That's not the Internet. It's the equivalent of The Source, GEnie, Compuserve, etc., all of which preceded what we know of as the Internet today (which is really the World Wide Web, the "Internet" preceded everything, but that's a story for another day). All entirely unrelated. What GameLine shared with the online services of the days - again, all proprietary networks that one dialed into - was a high cost. These were the days when you paid by the hour, or in the case of GameLine, pay for x number of plays (beyond the cost of the calls).

The other device you're thinking of is the Supercharger from Arcadia, who later changed their name to Starpath. I have one. This used to hook up to a cassette player and play games on cassette. It essentially allowed for games with expanded memory (it had extra RAM) and multiple scenes (each new "chapter" would load from the cassette, sort of like bankswitching). There were actually some extremely impressive games made for the add-on, including a superb arcade translation of Frogger, which puts the good Parker Brothers version to shame. With some care, it's fully compatible with modern CD players. Developers today DO NOT use the Supercharger much, if at all, simply because there have been some incredible flash/multi-carts made for the 2600 and 7800. Again, I have one of those too for the Atari 7800, that also acts as a Supercharger and high score cartridge and uses flash memory. While still somewhat valuable (Superchargers can still go for $30 - $50 or so), the "need" for a Supercharger has pretty much been negated for serious users.

By the way, the Supercharger is essentially a really long cartridge, while the GameLine is even bigger!

Terry Yager

July 17th, 2006, 09:10 AM

Yes, Arcadia. That's what I was thinking of. daKidz had one, with about four different games to go with (I forget which ones). Were there a lot of cassettes for it available?

--T

Bill_Loguidice

July 17th, 2006, 09:18 AM

Yes, Arcadia. That's what I was thinking of. daKidz had one, with about four different games to go with (I forget which ones). Were there a lot of cassettes for it available?

--T

It can't be said much better than over at AtariAge: http://www.atariage.com/company_page.html?CompanyID=32&SystemID=2600

Not many games, but a high ratio of quality. As indicated earlier, all of those games have been made available as images and also on compilation CD's for use with a real Supercharger or a flash cart.

Terry Yager

July 17th, 2006, 09:24 AM

Actually, I'm just curious. I've been out of the Atari loop for a long time.

--T

atari2600a

July 17th, 2006, 10:39 AM

Sorry, I meant SOME developers, not Most...

carlsson

July 17th, 2006, 12:44 PM

Some developers are working on games for the Supercharger, due to its extra RAM which, as you wrote, allows for more advanced games on the 2600.

I read that Atari were planning a 10-bit console code named 3600 around 1979, but programmers found it too difficult to use. Then it took all to 1982 before the 5200 with 16K RAM was released, and the VCS was renamed 2600. Maybe it would've been a wise move somewhere around 1979-80, when the design anyway was changed, to throw in a bit more RAM and make a VCS Mk II. And of course, the 5200 based on the Atari 400 computer, should probably have been more alike (compatible?) the 2600.

atari2600a

July 17th, 2006, 12:51 PM

On subject of the 3600, they have found prototype cart PCB's of (I think a 5200 game) that had 3600 either printed (Printed as in printed w/ the circuits, of course) or silkscreened on the PCB...

Bill_Loguidice

July 17th, 2006, 12:55 PM

I read that Atari were planning a 10-bit console code named 3600 around 1979, but programmers found it too difficult to use. Then it took all to 1982 before the 5200 with 16K RAM was released, and the VCS was renamed 2600. Maybe it would've been a wise move somewhere around 1979-80, when the design anyway was changed, to throw in a bit more RAM and make a VCS Mk II. And of course, the 5200 based on the Atari 400 computer, should probably have been more alike (compatible?) the 2600.

Nolan Bushnell had wanted to replace the VCS not too long after its release. Time Warner never went for it and eventually Bushnell left anyway.

It was something of a tactical error to not make the 5200 backwards compatible with the 2600. Eventually, to acquiesce to the market demands and competition from Coleco and Mattel that already offered their own compatibility add-ons, Atari made one for the 5200. Unfortunately, it was designed for the later 2-port model rather than the original 4-port model, which required a bit of modification. The add-on also made an already large system (particularly in the 4-port's case), even more large and bulky.

A lot of homebrew games today for the 5200 are conversions of Atari 8-bit titles, so it has a good mix of original and classic homebrews. You'll even often find new homebrew games for the Atari 8-bit seeing release soon after on the 5200. Of course, nearly all Atari systems, particularly consoles, have extremely robust hobbyist/homebrew communities.