New York

[Terry Yager]

Is it just me, or is this article blatantly racict?

http://www.nymetro.com/news/intelligencer/17161

I'm not even black, and I find it offensive.

--T

[mbbrutman]

It would only be racist if you read the article without seeing the picture and you had an idea of what race the person was.

Or another way to look at it, if the picture was of somebody else (say white), would you still feel better about what you read?

[Terry Yager]

I was wondering the same thing myself. Would it still be racist without the picture? I concluded that there are still enough code words in the text to make clear the ethnicity of the person(s) being written about, or at least, narrow it down to 'other-than-white' (some of the same stereotypes are also commonly applied to Latinos, etc).
It just burns my ass when I see such propaganda published in a so-called 'mainstream' magazine. Associating a black face with words such as 'lazy' 'lust' 'not motivated' 'booze' 'partying' and 'not willing to help themselves' etc is pretty sad, but the quote by the 'caseworker' should be enough to cost her her job, at the very least. If I were a person of color in NYC, I'd probably be looking into bringing a case against the caseworker. I realize that the magazine is protected by the first amendment, but a comment like that from a quasi-government-representative is a whole 'nother thing. (The article doesn't specify just who the 'caseworker' is employed by, but FEMA is strongly suggested).

And no, if the picture was a white man, the article would not be as offensive to me. The caseworker's comments about 'they' & 'them' would still be considered insensitive, but short of criminal. I'd settle for a reprimand and some sort of sensitivity training if that were the case, not necessarilly demand her job. (It's Not A Good Thing when a caseworker begins to consider her clients as 'Those People' etc).

--T

[Terry Yager]

My interpretation of the message encoded in the article:

You know how it is with Those People...all they want to do is sit around on thier butts, making babies and collecting money from the Government, so they can spend it all on booze, cigarettes, and partying!

I mean, the message couldn't be any clearer if they depicted him sitting in a pile of watermelon rinds with a bucket of chicken in his lap.

--T

[atari2600a]

Someday, I shall hack a racist website & post something like "First annual racist Gayfest meeting this tuesday. Arrive butt-naked" or something.

Anyways, Well you can't blame the newspaper/magazine (I'm too lazy to check) for what they printed, they where quoting someone else (I think). What they printed does suck though. They probobly lost at least $10,000 from just that one article.

[Terry Yager]

Don't kill my 'ranting' mood by making me ROFL! (That would be a pretty good hax tho).

I can see it now, gays in the KKK...

--T

[atari2600a]

Indeed, Dem dern mexicans tuk 'r TOTALLY FABULAS Jrbs!

[Terry Yager]

We should start designing the calendar right away. Where d'ya think we might find twelve nekkid rednecks in pointy hats?

We're gay, we're triple-K, get used to it!

--T

[atari2600a]

I don't know! If bearable, It could be PhotoShoped. Right now I'm gonna start Googling some racist sites, finding out what OS it's running on, etc.... As with Erik's host (Until about a month ago), many System admins leave alot of ports open & keep other ones like 23 (Telnet) closed. I was able to get into Erik's host's server through Port 25 using MS Telnet. (1. They've fixed the security hole since, & 2. Please don't ban me Erik!!!)

[atari2600a]

Found one! http://www.kkk.bz/ Looks like crap, done in FrontPage, running on Apache 2.0.46, shouldn't be too hard to hack at all!

[carlsson]

Atari, please keep this business for yourself.

[CP/M User]

Terry Yager wrote:

> Is it just me, or is this article blatantly racict?

Hmmm, the problem is with the article. How inaccurate can it
be - to the point where it twists the whole story - classic
one person approach story which are only published to add to
the dramatics of it. You could do the same thing about 100
people, but it ain't the same. Okay, so their (whatever you
call them), but New Oleans is the city their from (there's
more of them there than anybody else). So figuritively
speaking - it's a pile of rubbish builted on a pile of
rubbish.

I just think of it as - well somebody's got to be somewhere!

CP/M User.

[Terry Yager]

I did have the opportunity to tour thru the 3rd ward, where Mr. Johnson used to live, and the truth is, he doesn't have a home to go to...or a neighborhood...or a whole damn community...
That part of town is completely devastated, there isn't a single habitable building left. And the 5th ward got it even worse, but the 9th ward got the very worst of it. It was right downstream of where the levee broke.
The cruel joke that Katrina played was that the communities that were washed away were mostly in the low-rent areas, so the poorest of people were hit the hardest. Even if the evacuees wanted to go back to nola, there is no place for them there. How many minimum wage workers can cough-up >$400.00/week for rent? The joke was really against the businesses of New Orleans though, as they suddenly found themselves without a cheap labor force. The low-wage earners are the backbone of thier major industries. I mean, what good is a flashy new club or casino if there is no crew to staff it?

--T

[CP/M User]

Terry Yager wrote:

> I did have the opportunity to tour thru the 3rd ward,
> where Mr. Johnson used to live, and the truth is, he
> doesn't have a home to go to...or a neighborhood...or
> a whole damn community...

Okay, so it's the American way of life which has let this
person down?

Ironically, it's really a question of why they put a city
there in the first place. I mean most of it was below Sea
Level? It really wasn't Katrina which did the damage - but
the person who put the city there - were the consequences
clear or was it something people were blind to. I'd say it was
the later - though I can't be sure. As a human I am appauled
that other humans put many people (or just humans) so close to
hazards & we should be more self-sufficent in management of
the land (as well as Live off the land).

> The cruel joke that Katrina played was that the
> communities that were washed away were mostly in the
> low-rent areas, so the poorest of people were hit the
> hardest. Even if the evacuees wanted to go back to
> nola, there is no place for them there. How many
> minimum wage workers can cough-up >$400.00/week for
> rent? The joke was really against the businesses of
> New Orleans though, as they suddenly found themselves
> without a cheap labor force. The low-wage earners are
> the backbone of thier major industries. I mean, what
> good is a flashy new club or casino if there is no
> crew to staff it?

Stands to reason that the cheapest part of town would have to
be the deepest area below sea-level, be low maintenance & have
the cheapest people living there. All I can say is - it's upto
somebody to do something to rectify this situation - trouble
is everyone is too busy cleaning up wars which should never
had happened.

Strictly speaking - I reckon this planet is slowly moving back
in favour of the dogs.

[Chris2005]

“I spent my money just the way I wanted, and I think [fema] should send me some more,”

Well...let's ignore the perceived intent of the article for a moment. By his own words, the guy is a blatant oppurtunist. He's been sitting on his butt, if we can believe the story. He seems to be able bodied enough, has he even looked for a job? If we're told the whole tale, apparently not. And he's got somewhere to go back to it seems. He's just living it up. I guess that makes me some kind of racist in some people's minds. I'm just stating the facts.

And how did the American way of life fail the guy??????? It seems to me he's got plenty of options. I was told by a Canadian guy that although indigenous Indians of the country can have their entire college education paid for by the government, but less the 2% avail themselves of it. There are plenty of programs and resources available in this country that enable people to get back on their feet. The idea that is when you fall on hard times, make use of it, yet don't squander it.

[CP/M User]

Chris2005 wrote:

> Well...let's ignore the perceived intent of the
> article for a moment.

Impossible, the article -is- the story & IMO they are simply
painting the picture the way they want you to see it.

> By his own words, the guy is a blatant oppurtunist.

How can we be certain of that?

> He's been sitting on his butt, if we can believe the
> story. He seems to be able bodied enough, has he even
> looked for a job? If we're told the whole tale,
> apparently not. And he's got somewhere to go back to
> it seems. He's just living it up. I guess that makes
> me some kind of racist in some people's minds.

> I'm just stating the facts.

The only fact I can see here is nothing is clear.
It's a he said, she said debate - except she happens to be a
media website telling you want they want to tell you.
He might have some piece of dribble for his side of the story
too, which is why you need a third person who'll tell the
story as it should be.

> And how did the American way of life fail the
> guy???????

Read Terry's comments & you'll see how the system has failed.
In addition to this, I (and perhaps the rest of the
World) want to know what's being done about this?

> It seems to me he's got plenty of options. I was told
> by a Canadian guy that although indigenous Indians of
> the country can have their entire college education
> paid for by the government, but less the 2% avail
> themselves of it. There are plenty of programs and
> resources available in this country that enable
> people to get back on their feet.
> The idea that is when you fall on hard times, make
> use of it, yet don't squander it.

Again how can you be so sure, when people hit the hard times
here in Australia, it's the people here who open their hearts
& contribute - this has even been known to happen when
neighbourning countries are in trouble.

To me though, what doesn't add up is what's happening, perhaps
the media think it'd be cool to pick on this fella, though
wouldn't it make sense that it should be upto the community to
establish this person - I mean perhaps instead of handing
someone a bag full of money - give him a home & a car (if he
needs one). Or perhaps if he does have issues which need
dealing him - then send him to one.

CP/M User.

[mbbrutman]

Sorry Terry .. to me the article is written with a definite bias, but it's not racism. This particular example of a human being really is something to be embarrassed about.

It's only racist if you think that all people that look like that would behave the same way. To me, I see a pathetic human, not a pathetic race. The article would be just as nasty if a white person had been shown.

As a former New Yorker (and I still hold a passport) it's hard to think of any New Yorker as racist. The hotel just wants the free-loader out. His social worker and the hotel workers might be of the same race too .. we don't know.

[Micom 2000]

Well to most people in the world who see the rise of Fascism in the US under the Bush administration as a disturbing trend and who felt it had been defeated with the end of the 2nd world war, the present "American Way of Life" is not something to aspire to no matter what the FOX network might SPIN. It is represented by blogs such as this:
http://www.xanga.com/home.aspx?user=Conservative_Kyle

This is a far cry from the US I knew some years ago, where both my parents originated from, and certainly not the US framed by the constitution of the founding fathers.

As Benjamin Franklin said : Those who would give up freedom in the name of security deserve neither.

Your statements, too often mouthed by the conservative and fundamentalist right are simply a restatement of the old Colonel Blimp adages about white-mans burden.

In a country beset with a rising impoverished underclass, a related rise in crime and a rapidly widening of the economic spread spread between rich and poor, not to mention a total loss of prestige in how the US is viewed in the world, it might be time to reexamine your assumptions.

As far as the article goes it is racist only in posting a picture of the subject. It is more an attack on the poor in general. It sells better than it would if the subject was a poor cracker. The administration wants Katrina to "go away" and it's failures to deal with a disaster it was warned about. It's a variation of the "blame it on the victims" spin-doctors. Katrina was a great natural "slum-clearance" benefit for the big-bucks people who can now fashion an Acapulco of the South in New Orleans and eventually coax back the "ditch-diggers" from Houston or where-ever else they sought shelter. They'll erect small-apartment projects like in Singapore. A success for "The American Way of Life". 1 bronx cheer from this Canadian.
No way for the present "American Way". A travesty of the principles of the laudible constitution of the founding fathers many of which I do admire.

Lawrence

[CP/M User]

Chris2005 wrote:

> Well...let's ignore the perceived intent of the
> article for a moment.

Impossible, the article -is- the story & IMO they are simply
painting the picture the way they want you to see it.

> By his own words, the guy is a blatant oppurtunist.

How can we be certain of that?

> He's been sitting on his butt, if we can believe the
> story. He seems to be able bodied enough, has he even
> looked for a job? If we're told the whole tale,
> apparently not. And he's got somewhere to go back to
> it seems. He's just living it up. I guess that makes
> me some kind of racist in some people's minds.

> I'm just stating the facts.

The only fact I can see here is nothing is clear.
It's a he said, she said debate - except she happens to be a
media website telling you want they want to tell you.
He might have some piece of dribble for his side of the story
too, which is why you need a third person who'll tell the
story as it should be.

> And how did the American way of life fail the
> guy???????

Read Terry's comments & you'll see how the system has failed.
In addition to this, I (and perhaps the rest of the
World) want to know what's being done about this?

> It seems to me he's got plenty of options. I was told
> by a Canadian guy that although indigenous Indians of
> the country can have their entire college education
> paid for by the government, but less the 2% avail
> themselves of it. There are plenty of programs and
> resources available in this country that enable
> people to get back on their feet.
> The idea that is when you fall on hard times, make
> use of it, yet don't squander it.

Again how can you be so sure, when people hit the hard times
here in Australia, it's the people here who open their hearts
& contribute - this has even been known to happen when
neighbourning countries are in trouble.

To me though, what doesn't add up is what's happening, perhaps
the media think it'd be cool to pick on this fella, though
wouldn't it make sense that it should be upto the community to
establish this person - I mean perhaps instead of handing
someone a bag full of money - give him a home & a car (if he
needs one). Or perhaps if he does have issues which need
dealing him - then send him to one.

CP/M User.

[Micom 2000]

As a former New Yorker (and I still hold a passport) it's hard to think of any New Yorker as racist.

I was married to an Afro-American from the Bronx and became quite well-acquainted with New York. While Manhattan residents may consider NYC quite non-racist, in the ghettoes it is another story. New York is a very ghettoised city and if you look more closely at it's history or from another racial perspective it can be perceived quite differently. NYC is not Washington Square and some of mayor Jullianos policies certainly had racist aspects. Ever tried to get a cab from 52nd St to Harlem ? There were well-founded reasons for the Harlem Riots in the 60s. The racial divide exists very seriously in NYC. Some of the Posts positions are quite questionable. That said, NYC is not Missisippi.

And I do still have an affection for it, but never ask a new yorker for directions. :^)

Lawrence

[mbbrutman]

I grew up in NYC in the 70s and 80s. I've had the pleasure of being the only white person on a city bus. I've also been places late and night where people would automatically assume me to be dead. What can I say, I've been lucky. :-)

That cab from 52nd to Harlem isn't as hard to find anymore - as you point out, the race riots were 40 years ago. Sure, Howard Beach, Williamsburg, and other places have their reputations for being strongholds. But for an area with 22 million people living it in I'd say it's pretty damn enlightened. Some something stupid happens people generally keep their cool. Compare NY even to LA in the early 90s with the Rodney King riots .. no comparison.

BTW, real New Yorkers remember Rudy Guilianni when he was a bully picking fights with hotdog vendors and cab drivers as mayor, doing very public drug busts on the wrong people while he was DA, the very public and messy divorce, etc. For the mayor of NY he was as close to a fascist as you could get. He redeemed himself, but he's no angel.

[alexkerhead]

I'm sorry, but the Katrina victims, most of them took serious advantage of fema and their situation. They deserve little or no sympothy. IMHO

FrontPage, running on Apache 2.0.46, shouldn't be too hard to hack at all!
So is my site, you hack it, you'll never forget it.

[Chris2005]

>Impossible, the article -is- the story & IMO they are simply
>painting the picture the way they want you to see it.

It's simply a piece in a magazine. Facts can be gleaned from it. It's possible the story does have a slant, but BELIEVE YOU ME that magazine could pay big time if they totally misrepresent the story or the GUY'S OWN WORDS. There's always an army of civil rights attorneys standing by willing to represent someone in a case like that.

> >By his own words, the guy is a blatant oppurtunist.

>How can we be certain of that?

LOL. Sorry, if you can't see it, you just don't want to. I won't dignify the question with an answer.

>The only fact I can see here is nothing is clear.
>It's a he said, she said debate - except she happens to be a
>media website telling you want they want to tell you.
>He might have some piece of dribble for his side of the story
>too, which is why you need a third person who'll tell the
>story as it should be.

Go back to the top. There's always the possibilty for omissions or whatever. Maybe it actually is 100% accurate, or nearly so. It's up to the reader to do what they want with it.

>> And how did the American way of life fail the
>>guy???????

>Read Terry's comments & you'll see how the system has failed.
>In addition to this, I (and perhaps the rest of the
>World) want to know what's being done about this?

LOL @ you and the rest of the world. Sorry, you're arguing from a totally socialistic viewpoint if you feel the gov't, or anyone else still owes this guy anything. It's right in front of your face - the guy says it with his own mouth. He squanders what the gov't gave him, and says they should give him more.

>> The idea that is when you fall on hard times, make
>> use of it, yet don't squander it.

>Again how can you be so sure, when people hit the hard times
>here in Australia, it's the people here who open their hearts
>& contribute - this has even been known to happen when
>neighbourning countries are in trouble.

Umm, he said it with his own mouth. He's a freeloader. Do you want to work hard every day and simply give it to someone who won't get off their ass and find a job. We're not talking about Australia, and I'm not ignorant of the degree to which they will help those in need. But funny thing, I don't remember her name, despite all the aid the Aussies gave to the Indonesians, they still wanted to execute the dopey ass girl who got caught with the marijuana in their country. HOW'S THAT FOR GRATITUDE! I'd let them all drown!

>To me though, what doesn't add up is what's happening, perhaps
>the media think it'd be cool to pick on this fella, though
>wouldn't it make sense that it should be upto the community to
>establish this person - I mean perhaps instead of handing
>someone a bag full of money - give him a home & a car (if he
>needs one). Or perhaps if he does have issues which need
>dealing him - then send him to one.

The guy got plenty of assistance, and he had not intention of putting it to good use. Sorry mate, you're woefully ignorant about some aspects of American culture. You could give someone a Mercedes Benz and a palace, and in 2 weeks it might look like Katrina hit it.

[Chris2005]

>As a former New Yorker (and I still hold a passport) it's hard to think of any >New Yorker as racist. The hotel just wants the free-loader out. His social >worker and the hotel workers might be of the same race too .. we don't >know.

I totally disagree. All of us have the potential for some sort of bias, however small. But besides that I know plenty of NYers who run off at the mouth with racial slurs and whatnot.

>Well to most people in the world who see the rise of Fascism in the US >under the Bush administration...

O suuuure. What about Hillary's health care plan, where if you visited anyone but you're assigned doctor, jailtime could ensue.

>This is a far cry from the US I knew some years ago, where both my parents >originated from, and certainly not the US framed by the constitution of the >founding fathers.

Your opinion.

>Your statements, too often mouthed by the conservative and >fundamentalist right are simply a restatement of the old Colonel Blimp >adages about white-mans burden.

This country is largely conservative I feel. I'm a little hard to classify, though you're in the ballpark, yet you don't know me from a hole in the wall, so where's the license to call me anything? I'm not a huge fan of Bush, I like some of the things he did in the beginning of his administration, but find myself disappointed these days.

>In a country beset with a rising impoverished underclass, a related rise in >crime and a rapidly widening of the economic spread spread between rich >and poor, not to mention a total loss of prestige in how the US is viewed in >the world, it might be time to reexamine your assumptions.

I don't spend too much time wringing my friggin hands wondering what the rest of the world thinks of us. This is America. I'll unabashedly state it's the standard by which all else is judged. Sorry to be so patriotic, and I'm sure that'll raise a firestorm of protest. And I think you need to examine the reasons for the impoverished underclass and the rise of crime before you tell me to reexamine anything.

>As far as the article goes it is racist only in posting a picture of the subject.

I won't defend their reasons for posting his picture, or condemn them. He's a black dude, so??? And a refusal to post it could be simply politcal correctness.

> It is more an attack on the poor in general. It sells better than it would if >the subject was a poor cracker. The administration wants Katrina to "go >away" and it's failures to deal with a disaster it was warned about. It's a >variation of the "blame it on the victims" spin-doctors. Katrina was a great >natural "slum-clearance" benefit for the big-bucks people who can now >fashion an Acapulco of the South in New Orleans and eventually coax back >the "ditch-diggers" from Houston or where-ever else they sought shelter. >They'll erect small-apartment projects like in Singapore. A success for "The >American Way of Life". 1 bronx cheer from this Canadian.
> No way for the present "American Way". A travesty of the principles of the >laudible constitution of the founding fathers many of which I do admire.

O so another non-American criticizing the American way of life. I definately see a trend. Ok, so let's sum this up - how much money should I personally send this guy? And how much did you kick in Lawrence?

>Some of the Posts positions are quite questionable. That said, NYC is not >Missisippi."

And to say the least so are some of the NY Time's, Daily News', Newsdays'. Icarumba. But you really should live their for some length of time. I like the expression - A liberal is simply a conservative who hasn't been mugged! LOL

>And I do still have an affection for it, but never ask a new yorker for >directions. :^)

I'm a NYer who sometimes finds myself asking directions in NY. Yeah, could be frustrating. I was born in the city, but am not particularly a fan of the attitude. NY isn't just the city though. It's a whole state, as I'm sure you were aware.

>I grew up in NYC in the 70s and 80s. I've had the pleasure of being the only >white person on a city bus. I've also been places late and night where >people would automatically assume me to be dead. What can I say, I've >been lucky.

You're also dopey for going places you shouldn't have Mike LOL LOL. I guess we've all taken chances though.

>BTW, real New Yorkers remember Rudy Guilianni when he was a bully picking >fights with hotdog vendors and cab drivers as mayor, doing very public drug >busts on the wrong people while he was DA, the very public and messy >divorce, etc. For the mayor of NY he was as close to a fascist as you could >get. He redeemed himself, but he's no angel.

Don't get me started on Giulianni. My brother is a retired NY City detective. As if it was needed, he could give you some poignant insights into how full of it the guy was. I laugh when they suggest him as a candidate for president.

[mbbrutman]

Btw, Hillary is not a New Yorker. ;-)

[Chris2005]

carperbagger...of sorts? LOL

[Terry Yager]

I have to admit, I don't hold a very high personal opinion for the subject of the article either. I agree he's a deadbeat & a freeloader, but that doesn't excuse the author's choice of language in describing him (& others). The article could have been written without the use of stereotyping catchwords. I mean, when they describe him as looking with 'lazy lust' f'rinstance... What the hell does that mean? I'm not even sure if I would recognize a look of lazy lust if I did see it. The purpose of such language is not to accurately describe the expression on his face, but simply to perpetuate a racial stereotype.

--T

[CP/M User]

Chris2005 wrote:

> It's simply a piece in a magazine. Facts can be
> gleaned from it. It's possible the story does have a
> slant, but BELIEVE YOU ME that magazine could pay big
> time if they totally misrepresent the story or the
> GUY'S OWN WORDS. There's always an army of civil
> rights attorneys standing by willing to represent
> someone in a case like that.

Somehow I think you're correct & that Magazine have paid "big
time" just to do that.

> LOL. Sorry, if you can't see it, you just don't want
> to. I won't dignify the question with an answer.

Then so be it.

> The only fact I can see here is nothing is clear.
> It's a he said, she said debate - except she happens to be a
> media website telling you want they want to tell you.
> He might have some piece of dribble for his side of the story
> too, which is why you need a third person who'll tell the
> story as it should be.

> Go back to the top. There's always the possibilty for
> omissions or whatever. Maybe it actually is 100%
> accurate, or nearly so. It's up to the reader to do
> what they want with it.

Been there done that - why am I still here?

This could be more than just omissions & I mean big cover-ups
there's plenty of things I could conjure up which that
magazine don't want you to know about.

> LOL @ you and the rest of the world. Sorry, you're
> arguing from a totally socialistic viewpoint if you
> feel the gov't, or anyone else still owes this guy
> anything.

Maybe, but that doesn't count out other possibilities, which
the media won't include.

> It's right in front of your face - the guy says it
> with his own mouth. He squanders what the gov't gave
> him, and says they should give him more.

Sure, so why isn't the system fixing him up?!? Perhaps she
ain't a working properly & is still failing for this person.

> Umm, he said it with his own mouth. He's a
> freeloader. Do you want to work hard every day and
> simply give it to someone who won't get off
> their ass and find a job. We're not talking about
> Australia, and I'm not ignorant of the degree to
> which they will help those in need. But funny thing,
> I don't remember her name, despite all the aid the
> Aussies gave to the Indonesians, they still wanted to
> execute the dopey ass girl who got caught with the
> marijuana in their country. HOW'S THAT FOR GRATITUDE!
> I'd let them all drown!

Chappell Corby #9 or something. I don't believe the Aust
public paid one cent in getting her back - that was the Aust.
Govt. which wanted here back here - perhaps to lock her up in
their gaol.

Anyway, this isn't about some Australian, this is about some
dude which needs help. There's still huge blanks which needs
filling. Why isn't the American system doing something about
it.

> The guy got plenty of assistance, and he had not
> intention of putting it to good use. Sorry mate,
> you're woefully ignorant about some aspects of
> American culture. You could give someone a Mercedes
> Benz and a palace, and in 2 weeks it might look like
> Katrina hit it.

Well no, because this still doesn't address by original
question - so you see while this media have painted one
picture, there's the issue which the media are talking about &
addressing what needs to be done. Sure there's some other
insights which they haven't covered - perhaps they paid this
guy to give a story - who knows what part their playing. NEVER
trust a reporter mate, they should all be locked away with
this person.

If you ask me, I see one dude who's cunning enough to get
money & some media which have painted their picture to decieve
the American public - though the western worlds seems to be
adopting this KAOS quite nicely.

[Chris2005]

>Chappell Corby #9 or something. I don't believe the Aust
>public paid one cent in getting her back - that was the Aust.
>Govt. which wanted here back here - perhaps to lock her up in
>their gaol.

Despite the fact that she may well have been guilty, and extremely stupid, didn't the fact that she could have been executed, and to my understanding the prosecutor pushed in the worst possible way for that to happen, piss you off to no end? It certainly did me. I have no sympathy for drug runners or whatever she should be classified as, but after all the money your country gave them, they would still consider an action like that? Sure, lock her idiot ass up, but my god, put her down for a sack full of hemp lol?

>Anyway, this isn't about some Australian, this is about some
>dude which needs help. There's still huge blanks which needs
>filling. Why isn't the American system doing something about
>it.

I think a country (and individuals) should do as much as possible to help a person that's truly down and out. Does American do enough. Maybe not, maybe too much at times, and at the wrong times (there is a thing as too much you know). The thing is though to recognize when it's needed and when it's simply a handout.

>If you ask me, I see one dude who's cunning enough to get
>money & some media which have painted their picture to decieve
>the American public - though the western worlds seems to be
>adopting this KAOS quite nicely.

The media is the media. There's freedom of speech. Stories get slanted all the time. It's one of the hazards of the democratic system. Let's maybe consider for a moment if the whole thing is more or less accurate. This guy still isn't seen as a freeloader? Maybe something was left out. Maybe the guy's a vet with serious problems, and maybe can't work. Could be. But then again maybe not. There's lots of people like him. And I know we've drifted somewhat off Terry's original topic, and the answer to which I just don't have. But perhaps now and then a potent dose of honesty isn't such a bad thing. You tell me...

[dpatten]

If some of you will back off of your haste to indict America as a corrupt racist oppressor, consider that this guy is a freeloader who just happens to be black. Its socio-economic, not racist.

I personally think lazy-lust is a very apt metaphor for someone who would rather lay in bed and watch Halle Berry than go out and support himself. Whether his skin be black, white, yellow or red.

If this was a hick white guy in Missisippi getting kicked out of a FEMA trailer and an article was written using metaphors about cars up on blocks and marrying your cousin, I don't think anyone would get worked up.

As for America not doing enough, The guy is in a hotel nearly a year after the storm. I personally think America has done more than enough for him.

As a personal note, I don't think political discussions on this type of Forum are a good idea. I had to leave a CPU collectors forum after some of the wing-nuttier types decided that Bush and the Mossad were behind 9-11 and Bushwas intent on building a theocracy.

[Erik]

As a personal note, I don't think political discussions on this type of Forum are a good idea. I had to leave a CPU collectors forum after some of the wing-nuttier types decided that Bush and the Mossad were behind 9-11 and Bushwas intent on building a theocracy.

I can't say that I disagree with you on this, but here's my thinking:

Folks are going to have these opinions anyway, right? And at least a few are going to allow themselves to post said opinions off-topic under some circumstances. That's bound to elicit some responses and so on.

So, I've provided a place to put them when that happens which gives those that want to have these discussions a place to do so - in a friendly manner - and those that aren't interested can simply avoid posts to this section without any loss of topical discussions.

The other alternative is to prohibit these types of discussions altogether and to delete them as they pop up.

Obviously both work, but the choice I've made at least gives folks that are interested a way to share. I don't intend for these areas to be the focus of the forums and I don't expect their existence to drive people away (or to attract them, for that matter) but they do present an interesting opportunity.

Hopefully it's a decision I don't end up regretting. ;)

[Terry Yager]

If this was a hick white guy in Missisippi getting kicked out of a FEMA trailer and an article was written using metaphors about cars up on blocks and marrying your cousin, I don't think anyone would get worked up.


Apples & oranges. The ignorant redneck may be a stereotype, but he can not be described using the language of racism, because he has never been discriminated against based on his race or the color of his skin. It isn't socio-economic oppression (which is a whole 'nother topic). It is racism.

--T

[Terry Yager]

This thread started out as a rant, and I guess I'm still ranting a little, but if anyone thinks the topic should be moved to 'Political Discussions' just say the word, and it's there (I just thought 'Rants' more appropriate).

--T

[alexkerhead]

Hey, i don't think any of you can really understand an equalic society. I live in a city where 50% of the population if African American, so I have a great deal of experience with descrimination boths way.
The truth is, most people are racist, it is just to what extint you are racist. I can truthfully say that I don't believe any of you have ever looked at a black person and said "that "guy" seems nice" I am willing to bet you thought to yourself something like "omg, it's a black guy"
Every race, creed and culture does this against others. It is defined as racism, so we're all guilty.
This kind of racism can show itself in a form of a white guy writing a story about a black guy, seeing the story as it is, so, we know that he could have modified the story.
But, on the other hand, we can think of the guy in the hotel as not black, and then we would be readily there to accuse him of being a lazy loaf. Race causes people to be extremely timid, which can manifest itself to a subtle form of racism where we grant other races more benefit of the doubt, this leads to people who are more privilaged in the sense of having what they want. A white guy would have been booted out of the hotel six months ago, but the hotel owners didn't want to seem racist because the guy was black.

On another note.
Anyone who trusts the media is just about retarded, every channel of media coverage warps and modifies everything in their views.
I can truthfully say the BBC is just about the worst about this, their media coverage makes america out to be the worst country on earth. The BBC stands for the bullsh!t broadcasting corporation. This is why overtheponders think so lowly of the US.
The media is responsible for almost every form of hatred to another culture or society, the middle east is highly influenced by their media, which depicts america as nazi germany. Telling people propaganda about us killing civilians for fun and crap.
90% of northerners and westerners in the US believe Alabama is a white trash, racist craphole, and I have been seriously craped on because of ignorant, retarded people who believe that media crap about alabama, so I know first hand what descrimination is all about.
Also, people who claim they know something about another country but don't live there, need to shut their mouths. Your only source of outer country information is biased news companies. Just keep your trap shut about something you know nothing about. I dont claim to know everything about the UK, and don't want to pretend I am an expert, just because the news depicts them sometimes, I know the news depictions are falsified.

I propose that we create a thread dedicated to us(here at the forum) write news stories for others here to read, this woul give us a chance to really see what another country is like in the eyes of people who actually know sh!t about it.

[atari2600a]

***applause***

That thing about Alabama's true. When I think about Alabama, I the first thing that comes to mind is rotting teeth, KKK members, & rednecks. (Sorry Alexkerhead) ...But usually all thoughts like that are mentally firewalled by my concience, because I KNOW that isn't true (to 99% of the AL population)!

[Terry Yager]

That's funny, when I think of Alabama, the first thing that comes to mind is Lynard Skynard...

--T

[carlsson]

Or why not Reese Witherspoon? :-)

[alexkerhead]

lol, ya'll crack me up.
If it makes anyone feel any better, we do have an old and busted chevy pickup (http://www.ubertechworld.com/museum/images/misc/1983_silverado.jpg) in front of our house..lol
Other than that, you really can't tell the difference between our neighborhood and other rural areas.

Yes Carlsson, Reese is hot. ^_^


BTW, we got a new TV today. 42" Sony LCD..woot!

[atari2600a]

...At least it's not on your lawn!:p

[bbcmicro]

I suppose it is true that the BBC do not paint a pretty, or truthful picture of the Americans. They seem to be content spreading the idea that all Americans are gas-guzzling Texans. I don't meant to offend, but their broadcasting is rather narrow minded when it comes to the 6 O'clock news. I can't see how they get away with it. Tony Blair is faaar from popular right now, everyone in his own party seems to want him out, but at least, following the BBC's mind, he is 'Intelligent'. I can at least detach myself from this garbage. I do not follow politics very much, I suppose being young is my excuse, but even I can see the untruth behind the media. It seems to incubate hostile feelings toward and non-Britishers, thus stems the rise in the BNPs votes amongst working class and readers of the Sun (another influence of ultra-patriotism, unfortunately most circulated 'newspaper' in Britain') and other similar tabloids. At one time the idea that they would sometime come to power was laughable, now it is scaryingly feasable. Also, the arrival of the world cup isn't really helping matters. England hasn't go a hope in hell, although I have absolutely nothing against the flags and cheering, support and whatnot, its nice in its way, but its the whole 'England is the best' attitude I don't agree with. It promotes hostility. We were the best, try 60 years ago, maybe more, but that time has been and gone and we have to accept we are now runners up. Unfortunatley most people don't seem to accept that. Also, some friends of mine went to watch the matches on sunday (?) on the big screen television in Manchester City Centre. There were stabbings there and several people were arrested.

Wow, I'm getting all steamed up! (and off topic) better sit down...:)

[atari2600a]

...& you support them by buying their microcomputers! All pain & misery caused by the media is all your fault!!!:p

[alexkerhead]

I agree, any nation that think they are the best is retarded, including the US.
I wish that every nation could combine to create a single world entity, but there is no chance in hell of that.
Luckily, young people like you bbc, and others including myself here and everywhere else that share our ideals will someday try and repair this torn earthling society. I am guessing in 200 years this will happen, to bad I won't get to see it...errr.
I think the problem is that a lot of people refuse to accept we are all just human, nothing more, just animals that kill oneanother(present company not included in the killing part, that is aimed at world governments).

[bbcmicro]

Humans are the only animals on earth that do not kill for necessity (except some chimpanzees, although I think this is under debate)
I think that tells us a lot about our predetermined culture and just the human way

As for our Microcomputers, it all went down hill after the 90's...:)

I think I can live with the guilt ;)

[atari2600a]

You forgot all plant eating animals, plus sea life that survives off of small things like fungi & minerals.

[bbcmicro]

They kill to eat, they need to. If the plant eating animal was hungry, and didnt eat the plant, it would die. If a guy wanted some other guys wallet, and didnt stab him in the face and run off with the loot, he wouldn't die from lack of violence and ill-begotten cash. Actually, it would have been clearer if I say; Humans are the only animals that kill for no reason that relates to their survival that hasn't been induced by another human or a cause of his/her actions
Basically, we kill because we can.
I think a plant counts as a life? minerals, bleh. An acceptabel anomaly:)

[atari2600a]

Yeah, that makes more sence. If only Captain Jean Luc Picard was here to help...

[bbcmicro]

Our savior!

[Terry Yager]

This is the 'Rants' forum...you're s'pozed to get steamed up!

--T

[atari2600a]

Indeed. Make it so, number bbcmicro!

[alexkerhead]

Humans are the only animals on earth that do not kill for necessity (except some chimpanzees, although I think this is under debate)
I think that tells us a lot about our predetermined culture and just the human way

As for our Microcomputers, it all went down hill after the 90's...:)

I think I can live with the guilt ;)
Hehe.
I think 1997 was the year they started f'ing them up.

[Terry Yager]

I've never killed anything that I didn't eat afterwards. They say you should never name anything that you're going to eat, but my thinking is just the opposite. When you slaughter and eat an animal that started it's life out as a housepet, you learn a whole new respect, almost reverence, for the animal that was sacrificed to keep you alive. You may find yourself at the dinner table saying stuff like, "Pass me some of that NelliePig." or "gimme one of 'OlRed's' drumsticks." You just have to keep your emotions separate from your need for sustenance. Sure, I loved Nellie, she spent her entire nine-month life as our 'house pig', but we knew, and I believe that at some level, she knew, that her sole purpose in life was to feed her humans. Point is, after having used your 'friends' for food, you'll never look at food the same way again. I buy my meat in a supermarket these days, but I never eat any of it without thinking of the animal that gave it's life, and being grateful for it's contribution to the food-chain.

--T

[atari2600a]

Congradulations, you just broke the barrier of slaughterer & vegetarian!

[Terry Yager]

Ya just gotta remember that certain animals are *intended* by MotherNature to be feed-stock for other animals, so in eating one, you're helping it to fulfill it's destiny.

--T

[atari2600a]

Like Chicken & beef? Because they have other primary tasks in life, but we, being a species intellegent enough to manipulate the entire ecosystem, have altered their primary objective. I don't mean that in a bad way, like slavery, I mean it's just the circle of life. Back in the day, we'd be eating the same stuff, even more things that would seem obscure to today's standards, but we'd be taiming & killing it ourselves.

[Terry Yager]

Well, I was thinking more along the lines of pork and rabbit, purely food animals. Sure, cows & chickens are good non-destructive sources of protein, but when a hen stops laying, or a cow's milk dries up, they become a liability and must be made to contribute in some other way. Then there's like roosters, f'rinstance. About 50% of all chickens hatched are male, but only about 10% of them are really necessary for servicing a flock, so about 90% of them are intended to be food right from the start. 90% of all rabbits never reach breeding age, the rest end up on some predator's dinner table. It's just the way nature intended, that's why rabbits (& chickens) are such prolific breeders.

--T

[carlsson]

These threads take interesting ways: from a long-time FEMA evacuee to breeding cattle...

[alexkerhead]

Yeah, i was wondering the same thing, why did this turn into a thread about eating pets?
LOL

[carlsson]

It went via rednecks in trailers, unbiased news coverage, self-proclaimed superiority and killing eachother to the topic about kill for food.

[atari2600a]

...to how it got there.

[bbcmicro]

Well, I think it's a good thing to keep a level of diversity. Where diversity borders on random however it is hard to tell...

[CP/M User]

Chris2005 wrote:

> Despite the fact that she may well have been guilty,
> and extremely stupid, didn't the fact that she could
> have been executed, and to my understanding the
> prosecutor pushed in the worst possible way for that
> to happen, p!$$ you off to no end?

No it doesn't. Most Aussies might pay to see what the media
painted as a poor unfortunately victim come back home, that's
their decision. I have absolutely no faith in media cause it's
always about now, now & that just happened to be one of those
stories - which the media really had to rub into once they
discovered the full story - if that really is what it was
(like I said).

> I think a country (and individuals) should do as much
> as possible to help a person that's truly down and
> out. Does American do enough. Maybe not, maybe too
> much at times, and at the wrong times (there is a
> thing as too much you know). The thing is though to
> recognize when it's needed and when it's simply a
> handout.

Perhaps, though if a person decides to kind away their money,
then that's their business. Yes, it probably gives people
satisfaction to hand money to those in need - though not
everyone's like that.

> The media is the media. There's freedom of speech.
> Stories get slanted all the time. It's one of the
> hazards of the democratic system.

So's money - it's a huge interconnecting twirl full of greed,
violence & hate - which as humans will just about wipe the
human race of the face of this planet.

> Let's maybe consider for a moment if the whole thing
> is more or less accurate. This guy still isn't seen
> as a freeloader? Maybe something was left out. Maybe
> the guy's a vet with serious problems, and maybe
> can't work. Could be. But then again maybe not.
> There's lots of people like him. And I know we've
> drifted somewhat off Terry's original topic, and the
> answer to which I just don't have. But perhaps now
> and then a potent dose of honesty isn't such a bad
> thing. You tell me...

Personally for myself, I try avoiding or if I have to grin &
bare it - contrdict 'em. We get a lot of those lousy stories
about con artists, people mistreated unfairly & all that bull
dust - hey that's life, welcome to my world. Media - don't
trust 'em! ;-D

Might as well look after yourself! In a way the dude in New
York is kinda doing that - unfortunately something else needs
to happen.

CP/M User.

[CP/M User]

Terry Yager wrote:

> Well, I was thinking more along the lines of pork and
> rabbit, purely food animals. Sure, cows & chickens
> are good non-destructive sources of protein, but when
> a hen stops laying, or a cow's milk dries up, they
> become a liability and must be made to contribute in
> some other way. Then there's like roosters,
> f'rinstance. About 50% of all chickens hatched are
> male, but only about 10% of them are really necessary
> for servicing a flock, so about 90% of them are
> intended to be food right from the start. 90% of all
> rabbits never reach breeding age, the rest end up on
> some predator's dinner table. It's just the way
> nature intended, that's why rabbits (& chickens) are
> such prolific breeders.

Yes, humans are destined to eat meat, however the number of
mouths to eat worldwide is less than the amount of produce
provided. It's all very well if everything is in balance &
everything running smoothly, unfortunately Govt & Media have
cracked pot this cover-up which don't show the true worldwide
reality & the reality in countries doin' hard times.

It's a wonder that while Aust has a serious Rabbit problem -
somethin' isn't happening in terms of hunting these Vermin
down - surely they could be an alternative food source. How
'bout a bit of Fox while we're at it. Can't some of
Australia's pest species be of some valuable food source for
people?

Sure wish I could simply live off the land at the moment, not
have to worry about money or fuel, be an effective hunter - as
opposed to checking out of a supermarket. In a way I envy the
cultures.

CP/M User.

[CP/M User]

I was just thinkin' perhaps some good trustworthy websites
should be a called for here. In all honesty if people wanted
to look at my website, they only have seen a pin
prick (perhaps less) on the Australian Map of Australian bush.

Some things I like to see are R&D based sites it'd be rather
interesting to know what's currently happening - worldwide.
Unfortunately I felt cheezed off when the Aussie govt have
been selling off Research & Development as well as Govt. owned
bodies to private businesses - all a backward step in my
opininon. Sure they talk about the Budget Surplus - though
it's all a greed thing doing absolutely nothing - maybe I have
a right to be displeased.

CP/M User.

[Chris2005]

"Yes, humans are destined to eat meat"

I originally thought that read "designed". I don't believe they're designed, though destined yes. There's this kid somewhere out in the midwest I think, who's vigorously athletic. Eats - milk and crackers ONLY. CAN'T eat anything else.
I'm not saying we should put our faith in the media, and an ample helping of skepticism is healthy to say the least. Let's just say "we" have seen examples of cases like that dude, lots in fact, and scoff at the notion he still needs "help".
I posted something about a radio show I listen to somewhat frequently, and I do believe they stream it (wabcradio.com). It comes on at 10pm EST, and they guy frequently has guest on from all over the globe. Very informative. And it used to be he'd have this Australian dude on every night, danger.com used to be his website (apparently he sold the domain). Jeremy Zacchus (pardon the likely misspelling).