How to start?

[eilrhacrenrut]

I'm sorry if this happens to be a repost but I have things playing on my mind. I decided to start getting into computing a year or so ago I know it doesn't seem so long ago but I've comitted myself to the fine arts of computing and in the process have learn't alot.

But now I want somthing interesting I wish to buy or find if I can an old broken computer: then I wish to try and fix it up, I personally feel this is the best way to learn about this subject I would very much like to hear your views about this.

The reason I have created this thread and the reason I suggested it may well be a repost is because I'm asking for general advice. How did you advanced persons whom can now benefit from hindsight start or would suggest to start learning about this fascinating feild? I'm sure some of you are old enough to have lived through the ages of computers I however have not, just 17.

So should I buy/find an old broken computer and fix it up straight away? Are there any other methods of learning this that you would suggest? Any suggestions/comments would be very much welcomed, I just feel that the knowledge and skill being able to fix/build program/manipulate an older less user friendly computer can only benefit you current skills with modern day computing.

Well thank you for taking the time to read my post, I look forward to learning from you guys and girls.

[carlsson]

I would strongly recommend that you buy or otherwise acquire a working computer, in particular if you're looking to learn about vintage computers (15+ years old or so). Pick a brand that has plenty of online support, documentation, software etc. People on the forum can help you find the most suitable systems.

Try to understand how the system works, from a user perspective. Most older computers can with ease be programmed ("with ease" here refers to getting started, not how easy it is to actually make a program). From there, if you find it is fun, you can get more computers; either of the same brand and model (for spare parts - perhaps to repair later) or different kinds of computers to cover a bit of everything.

Some of us got our first home computers as children, others were introduced to computers through their work. You learn slowly, bit by bit. To jump straight into a hobby by buying something that doesn't work, and expect to fix it up without knowing much about it sounds awfully difficult, unless you at least have extensive electronics skills. Compare with getting interested in cars, and you would start by buying a 20 year old wreck that is in need of a complete overhaul. Much better to buy a car that is working and only need a little TLC.

[atari2600a]

My suggestion: Buy an old MS-DOS computer from a thrift store, mess around with it, then take it apart & put it back together again. This is how I learned alot about hardware when I was 9.

[carlsson]

If the focus is on handling hardware, make sure to have a digital camera or similar to document the "before" stage. It will come handy when you try to remember how certain parts were attached.

[eilrhacrenrut]

Thank you for the feedback so my thourghts on buying an old broken computer are incorrect.. So I guess my question is what now to get, I'll put MS-DOS machines on my list, I do actully have an Amiga 4000 in my loft, It was my brothers, apparantly thats more of a console than a computer so I don't think thats quite what I'm after.

Do the parts for older machine become quite expensive? You see this would have to be a low budget venture - I'm poor enough as it without saticfying my new computer passion :yell:

[ribbets]

cheap enough here in the states under $40.00 US but in the UK...
I don't know...

[ahm]

You say you want to "learn computers".
Specifically what is it you want to learn?
Hardware? Software?
Are you looking to get a job in computers?
Or do you just want to study how computers have developed?
Your answers to these questions would give us a better idea of how we might help.

A wise man once said:
"If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there."

[Paisley Pirate]

I do actully have an Amiga 4000 in my loft, It was my brothers, apparantly thats more of a console than a computer so I don't think thats quite what I'm after.

*Whimper*

Amiga's are WAAAAY more than a console, dude... And the A4000 was/is the top dog of the original breed. That would be a really decent starter "vintage" unit.
Plenty of software, plenty of hardware (although getting a little rare, still, way more availability than a lot of other stuff) and even internet and ethernet capable...

The whimper is for my dead A4000 that I am trying to get back together again... I had amigas from 1987 to 2001 when I finally succumbed to the "dark" (read microsoft) side...

Win 95 = Amiga Workbench 1.0 A truism if ever there was...

Since you have one, that would be my starting off point... if not, can I have it? (heheh, j/k but not really!)

[carlsson]

Ayep, if an Amiga 4000 is considered a (video game) console, a lot of the personal and home computers from the 80'ties and early 90'ties should be considered video games. As Paisley wrote, it is a good start to explore it. It consists of many separate parts, so you can take it apart and put back together again. It isn't as common as your average MS-DOS computer, so once you learn a bit about the system, you are on your way to become an expert on a system not everyone have experience of. And experts - even if self-proclaimed - are always welcome additions to the community. :-D

[Paisley Pirate]

I almost forgot one other neato fact about the A4000...

the memory is the same as most p1's - 72 pin simm (that sound right...? old age, sorry) up to 4mb per stick, it might be able to use 2 8's or 1 16, never tried it, 4mb's thats what I used in mine. the drives are ide, and a plug in adapter can be used to run any higher quality multisync monitor with it.

So, several of the parts are more or less readily available in the bigger pc world..

Also, if you need further technical info, there's a lot of old amiga-heads out here that are willing to help...

I've got the A4000 Tech Ref Manual sitting at home that I need to get digitized and posted... sorry I haven't done it... too busy "goofing off"...

[DKDeckmann]

Take out an ad in the local newspaper:

"COMPUTERS RECYCLED".
"FREE LOCAL PICKUP".
(nnn)nnn-nnnn


I'm sorry if this happens to be a repost but I have things playing on my mind. I decided to start getting into computing a year or so ago I know it doesn't seem so long ago but I've comitted myself to the fine arts of computing and in the process have learn't alot.

But now I want somthing interesting I wish to buy or find if I can an old broken computer: then I wish to try and fix it up, I personally feel this is the best way to learn about this subject I would very much like to hear your views about this.

[sjv]

Computers of the last decade or so are very complex and difficult to debug to root cause. Most techs are just part swappers (same as auto mechanics). You won't learn much from this method. If you want to get your hands dirty and learn something about digital electronics, computer basics, and machine/assembly language programming, I would build an old style single board computer. I built a COSMAC Elf using wire wrap back when I was 14 from an old article in Popular Electronics. I learned an INCREDIBLE amount by doing this. The Elf uses a CDP1802 CPU that doesn't require ROM, which keeps the design simple and a little cheaper. There are other old CPU's that are interesting, like Z80, 6502, etc. There are also modern CPU/controllers that can be fun, like the Parallax Basic Stamp, Atmel AVR series, Ubicom SX, Pics, etc...

Check out these links:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cosmacelf/
http://www.sparetimegizmos.com/Hardware/Elf2K.htm
http://www.brielcomputers.com/replica1.html
http://www.parallax.com/html_pages/products/basicstamps/basic_stamps.asp
http://www.xgamestation.com/view_product.php?id=34

This is only a start. There's a lot of cool stuff out there.

-steve

[eilrhacrenrut]

You say you want to "learn computers".
Specifically what is it you want to learn?
Hardware? Software?
Are you looking to get a job in computers?
Or do you just want to study how computers have developed?
Your answers to these questions would give us a better idea of how we might help.

A wise man once said:
"If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there."

Well I would like to get a better understanding of both hardware and software, to be honest I'm not really 100% sure what exactly I want to do as for a computer career, I have been interested in networking specifically and have been looking at cisco courses.. so I guess that is the road open to me atm.

As for the amiga I only really remember playing Lords of The Relm if that brings any memories back and of course Street Fighter, it has the orginal monitor and as far as I know its fully functional. It hasn't been used for 6-7 years so maybe it will just die when I put electrisity through it..

Well thanks for the advice I pull the darn thing out and take some pics I've probally got the name wrong, whilst writting this I was telling my brother Im getting the amiga out, appartnly hes got some other amstrad up there, with a tape? I dunno he slurs his words.

Cheers guys.

[carlsson]

That might be an Amstrad CPC 464/664/6128, which all are Z80 based home computers from the mid-80ties, often with a custom display although not strictly required. It is more of an all-in-one solution, no parts you can easily replace without a bit of skill. The user community is certainly smaller, but quite decent. On this forum, CP/M User (where did he go?) down in Australia is a die-hard CPC fan among others.

It is fully possible that your brother at one point upgraded from the Amstrad to an Amiga, but kept both in storage.