A delayed happy holidays and happy new-year to all...

[Thomas Hillebrandt]

Hi there, my fellow vintage-geeks :)

With the annual solstice-festivities being well passed, and the change to a new number in the "year" field of our calendars, I just want to send my greetings.

This is partly a celebration of the fact that after 10 wretched days, I'm finally back on-line, and party a celebration of the fact that I once again do my computing by a 21" monitor, rather than a 15"...

I hope the holidays brought you all nice, vintage items for your collections. My present came a little late this year - yesterday, but made up for that by being 3 beautiful machines: A Commodore ExecuDesk 8296-D, a Tandy Radio Shack TRS-80 model 4 (expanded to 128K RAM and 3 floppydrives) and finally a HeathKit Computer (with unknown specs)...

Thank you. That is all! :wink:

[Terry Yager]

Hi there, my fellow vintage-geeks :)


I hope the holidays brought you all nice, vintage items for your collections. My present came a little late this year - yesterday, but made up for that by being 3 beautiful machines: A Commodore ExecuDesk 8296-D, a Tandy Radio Shack TRS-80 model 4 (expanded to 128K RAM and 3 floppydrives) and finally a HeathKit Computer (with unknown specs)...

Thank you. That is all! :wink:

Lucky you...congratulations, hope you enjoy your new toyz.

--T

[CP/M User]

"Thomas Hillebrandt" wrote:

> Hi there, my fellow vintage-geeks :)

> Thank you. That is all! ;)

Ditto! ;-)

CP/M User.

[CP/M User]

"Terry Yager" wrote:

>> I hope the holidays brought you all
>> nice, vintage items for your collections.
>> My present came a little late this year -
>> yesterday, but made up for that by being
>> 3 beautiful machines: A Commodore
>> ExecuDesk 8296-D, a Tandy Radio Shack
>> TRS-80 model 4 (expanded to 128K RAM
>> and 3 floppydrives) and finally a HeathKit
>> Computer (with unknown specs)...

> Lucky you...congratulations, hope you enjoy
> your new toyz.

That's quite different getting numerous
Computers for Christmas, wouldn't happen
here!

CP/M User.

[Terry Yager]

Well, I did get a new cd-rw fr x-mas, but it ain't exactly "vintage".

--T

[CP/M User]

"Terry Yager" wrote:

> Well, I did get a new cd-rw fr x-mas, but it ain't exactly
> "vintage".

It isn't exactly a computer! ;-)

Cheers,
CP/M User.

[Terry Yager]

"Terry Yager" wrote:

> Well, I did get a new cd-rw fr x-mas, but it ain't exactly
> "vintage".

It isn't exactly a computer! ;-)

Cheers,
CP/M User.

Lessee...it has a cpu...has i/o...has memory...has permanent storage...
Why isn't it a computer? (Just not a very smart one.)

--T

[CP/M User]

"Terry Yager" wrote:

> > Well, I did get a new cd-rw fr x-mas, but it ain't exactly
> > "vintage".

> > It isn't exactly a computer! ;-)

> Lessee...it has a cpu...has i/o...has memory...has
> permanent storage...
> Why isn't it a computer? (Just not a very smart
> one.)

Have things change, or 'am I incorrect in saying that the
BASIC personal computer needed a Keyboard, Monitor &
CPU?

This is why Dumb Terminals are called Dumb Terminals,
since they look to somebody who has something they
need.

Well I guess I could be wrong, since lots of those earlier
computers didn't have the 3 basic items & everyone
nowadays just feeds the wrong info about what is a
computer? At the time, it might seem like a stupid easy
question, but can come back to haunt you.

Cheers,
CP/M User.

[CP/M User]

Which reminds me, people are starting to ask what
an OS is, is CP/M an OS?

Some say that the BIOS is the actual OS since it tells
the computer what to do. On an IBM, it simply asks
it to boot a disk (in earlier systems it might try & boot
a disk & then goto BASIC if no disk is found).

So because someone can't define what an OS is, we
now have all these programs which are called OSes,
but really ways of using the system. The BIOS seems
to be all around us on an IBM, as we can tell it what
to do (through the programs).

Cheers,
CP/M User.

[Terry Yager]

Is the computer in your car a "real" computer, then? It doesn't have a screen or a keybd. Forgive me but, I was taught that the three basic components of a computer were: processor, memory and I/O. If it has all three, then it's a computer. (Even dumb (and smart) terminals are dedicated single-purpose computers.)

--T

[vic user]

I was taught that the three basic components of a computer were: processor, memory and I/O. If it has all three, then it's a computer.

I sure am no expert, but would this definition be more specific to a digital computer?

mind you, Babbage's Analytical Engine seems to fulfill the criteria as well.

Chris

[Erik]

I think there are some differences between the generic definition of a computer and the definition of a "personal computer" etc.

That may be what folks are getting hung up on.

Erik

[Thomas Hillebrandt]

I think there are some differences between the generic definition of a computer and the definition of a "personal computer" etc.

That may be what folks are getting hung up on.


Well spoken - umm, I mean written..


Meanwhile, it turns out the Commodore 8296-D has a dead CRT. :( It just makes a clicky sound when switched on, and that's it! Any suggestions?

And does anyone know the "Heathkit Computer"?? Or is that term descriptive of several systems?

[vic user]

And does anyone know the "Heathkit Computer"?? Or is that term descriptive of several systems?

The only heathkit I have ever used, was back in high school, and it was a trainer, with an attached breadboard and all that. Came in a nice hard case. Lots of fun poking around with that thing.

I never knew that there were actual Heathkit computers with a screen and all that.

Chris

[Erik]

And does anyone know the "Heathkit Computer"?? Or is that term descriptive of several systems?

There are a few Heath machines. If it's a flat, PC sized box with a hex pad and a small LED display then it's an H8.

If it looks like a terminal and has a drive next to the monitor then it's probably an H-88/H-89.

Both are pretty much the same, spec wise, in that they are 8080 or z-80 based and can run CP/M or HDOS (amongst others).

Erik

[Thomas Hillebrandt]

If it looks like a terminal and has a drive next to the monitor then it's probably an H-88/H-89.

Both are pretty much the same, spec wise, in that they are 8080 or z-80 based and can run CP/M or HDOS (amongst others).

Based on this, I just inspected the case. Lo and behold, an almost completely worn-down label had an indentation that seems to read "H-89II"

I want to open the case - both the look at robot-porn (if you don't know the Fox series "Futurama", this makes no sense), but also to clean it - it's mighty filthy. But I can't seem to figure out how. The screws I've tried seem to be for mounting the inards of the thing, and this makes me a tad apprehensive about losening too many.

Do you know the disk-format for this model? I have some CP/M disks, but I know that the formats are many, and not necessarily intercompatible.

[Erik]

Based on this, I just inspected the case. Lo and behold, an almost completely worn-down label had an indentation that seems to read "H-89II"

I didn't know they had a "II" on these. . . :)


I want to open the case - both the look at robot-porn (if you don't know the Fox series "Futurama", this makes no sense), but also to clean it - it's mighty filthy. But I can't seem to figure out how. The screws I've tried seem to be for mounting the inards of the thing, and this makes me a tad apprehensive about losening too many.

There should be a pair of spring-loaded catches on either side of the bottom of the case about halfway back. Release both of those and you can lift the upper part of the case up and get to the guts.


Do you know the disk-format for this model? I have some CP/M disks, but I know that the formats are many, and not necessarily intercompatible.

Most of these used a 10 hard sectored 5.25 floppy. I don't think it's compatible with the Northstar format so you'll need a Heath/Zenith boot disk.

Your other option would be to "soft boot" it. Dwight Elvey (who's a member here, albeit a quiet one) has figured out how to do that.

Hopefully he'll respond to a PM if he doesn't see this thread.

Erik

[CP/M User]

"Terry Yager" wrote:

> Is the computer in your car a "real" computer, then?
> It doesn't have a screen or a keybd. Forgive me
> but, I was taught that the three basic components of
> a computer were: processor, memory and I/O. If it
> has all three, then it's a computer. (Even dumb (
> and smart) terminals are dedicated single-purpose
> computers.)

Ah yes, that's the 3 I was looking for! ;-)

Cheers,
CP/M User.

[CP/M User]

"vic user" wrote:

>> I was taught that the three basic components
>> of a computer were: processor, memory and
>> I/O. If it has all three, then it's a computer.

> I sure am no expert, but would this definition be
> more specific to a digital computer?

> mind you, Babbage's Analytical Engine seems
> to fulfill the criteria as well.

I'm not sure how Babbage's Analytical Engine went
for memory, though it had a form of I/O, as for a
processor those sorts of machines required a
human head for the problem at hand!

[vic user]

It's 'memory' was stored on cards with punch holes I do believe.

Chris

[Terry Yager]

Based on this, I just inspected the case. Lo and behold, an almost completely worn-down label had an indentation that seems to read "H-89II"

I didn't know they had a "II" on these. . . :)


I want to open the case - both the look at robot-porn (if you don't know the Fox series "Futurama", this makes no sense), but also to clean it - it's mighty filthy. But I can't seem to figure out how. The screws I've tried seem to be for mounting the inards of the thing, and this makes me a tad apprehensive about losening too many.

There should be a pair of spring-loaded catches on either side of the bottom of the case about halfway back. Release both of those and you can lift the upper part of the case up and get to the guts.


Do you know the disk-format for this model? I have some CP/M disks, but I know that the formats are many, and not necessarily intercompatible.

Most of these used a 10 hard sectored 5.25 floppy. I don't think it's compatible with the Northstar format so you'll need a Heath/Zenith boot disk.

Your other option would be to "soft boot" it. Dwight Elvey (who's a member here, albeit a quiet one) has figured out how to do that.

Hopefully he'll respond to a PM if he doesn't see this thread.

Erik

You probably should contact Don Maslin to see if he has the correct bootdisk. (You'll prolly have to make an educated guess as to disk format. Ten hard sectors sounds about right, tho.) Email Don at:

donm@crash.cts.com

Also, IIRC the H-89 has a monitor program in ROM, so you still have something to play with while waiting for your disks to arrive. (I don't remember any of the commands, except that they are single-letter commands, so experimentation with the keyboard should turn up something.)

--T

[Terry Yager]

Thomas:

I don't know how this applies to your H-89 II, but you might want to check this eBay auction.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2778745028&category=4193

--T

[CP/M User]

"vic user" wrote:

> It's 'memory' was stored on cards with punch holes
> I do believe.

Actually, due to the era Charles Babbage was around,
he wasn't able to complete his machine & only a part
of it exists, however I beleive there were a number of
factors which meant he didn't complete his machine.

The idea with the punched cards was to store a
program on, from what I've read about this it's an
early attempt (if not the first) to write a program &
store it onto a media.

Cheers,
CP/M User.

[vic user]

Here is some info i got over the net:

The Analytical Engine was intended to use loops of Jacquard's punched cards to control an automatic calculator, which could make decisions based on the results of previous computations. This machine was also intended to employ several features subsequently used in modern computers, including sequential control, branching, and looping.

The engine had four components: the store (memory), the mill
(computational unit), the input section (punched card reader)
and the output section (punched and printed output). This "engine"
was completely mechanical and unfortunately needed thousands of cogs,
gears, and wheels for it to function. Babbage was unable to produce most
of these parts to the degree of precision or tolerance needed due to the
technology of his time.

The store capacity was 1000 words of 50 decimal digits used to hold variables and results.

The mill could accept operands from the store, add, subtract, multiply or
divide them, and return a result to the store.

The engine could read instructions from punched cards and carry them out, at times combining a second set of input data and compiling the numbers in the mill, then sending the results back to the store.
Instruction variables included being able to test a number for a positive
or negative value. By inputting a different set of punch cards, different
computations could be archived.

The results or "output" could be punched into a copper engraver's plate
with a steel die, thus making hardcopy data available to the user.
Unfortunately Babbage never saw his project finished, he soon ran out of
personal funds and the Government sponsorship soon dried up as well.

However, in 1906 the actual construction was completed by his son,
Major Henry Babbage, with help from a local engineering firm.
The first program was to calculate and print the first 25 multiples
of pi to 29 decimal places, to demonstrate that it worked.

-----

Chris