What is your primary programming Language at present?

[joshua77]

Hi all,
Could you tell me What is your primary programming Language at present?
MY present programming Language is Java/J2EE I like all open source products specifically i'm very interested in Java Language..
Please share your opinion here...
Regards,

[carlsson]

Neither of the languages mentioned is commonly used on vintage computers, not even for cross-development, I believe. Well, with the exception of C and perhaps old versions of C++.

What is "Mainframe" supposed to mean in the context of programming languages? Ditto for "Embedded", which is more an architecture than a type of programming language. For that matter, I'm currently 100% PHP.

Basically, this poll is both off-topic and remotely on-topic at the same time, in a bizarre fashion. All of us who program in Z80, X86, 68K, 6502 and other older types of machine code, and use different versions of Basic, Pascal, Ada, Forth, perhaps Fortran or Lisp and so on would all have to choose "Other". Those all belong more to the vintage concept than e.g. J2EE or .NET.

[Thrashbarg]

I only program for my 8080 and other old CPU's so I use assembler, PL/M-80 and FORTH.

I'm not interested in programming for new OS's. I'm no good at it anyway.

[mbbrutman]

This is off topic for a Vintage Computer Forum, so I've moved it to a more appropriate area.

J2++ and .Net don't run on vintage hardware. Substitute BASIC, FORTRAN, Assembler, and a few other classics and it would be on topic.

[carlsson]

I'm sure that somewhere out there, somebody with too much time on his or her hands has made a J2EE implementation at least on a 80286 or 68000. Perhaps very limited and only for showing off, but still.

[mbbrutman]

Doubt it. It's hard enough to do embedded Java, but then doing J2EE on top of it is not feasible.

[atari2600a]

I've been doing some 6502 ASM recently. (as of right now I suck.) Eventually I plan to move on to the Atari 2600, then the NES.

I tried to get into C, but it just seemed too limited. Maybe I'll program a text adventure in C someday...(first I'll have to refresh all my memory on it though!)

[Brendan]

C right now, but there's a limited amount of architectural modeling you can do before it's time to put together some block diagrams and verilog.

At home, I've been switching back and forth between LabView and Not eXactly C (both specifically for Lego Mindstorms NXT) and a little bit of old TI 99 BASIC.

[Vlad]

Gotta love BASIC....

[dongfeng]

The best BASIC I ever learnt to program (properly) was good old BBC BASIC on the BBC Micro!

I did learn C++ and Java at University, but I forgot most of it now...

Long live BBC Basic :)

[chuckcmagee]

My biggest one of late is L.A.Z.Y. Ok, ok, various Basic has been about it. I do have a nice Turbo C++ for DOS sitting next to me in a red box. Just need to learn C++ now. Need to learn some CoCo assembler to play with my machines.

[atari2600a]

I was looking around in my school's library today (as I've just finished my last book), & to my suprise, they have a copy of 'C++ For Dummies'!!! This is a big suprise to me, as I've searched numerous times in the school's internet-based catalog for any programming books!

I guess I'll be teaching myselc C++ alongside 6502 ASM now! The bad thing is, the book is like 5 pounds, so I'll be lugging an extra 5 pounds on my back for like 2+ months!

[SwedaGuy]

For PCs I'm still a Clipper person, or any x-base clone. I guess that's what I have the most experience with, but lately I've been doing the most work in 8085 assembler, with a little 8741 assembler on the side. Since you asked, this happens to be an embedded application.

I know some RPG, as well. I'm not great with it, but I know enough to be dangerous. Would that be considered "Mainframe" for the purposes of this poll?

I've done some COBOL stuff, but it never really grew on me. C is to terse, but my partner swears by it. It's actually a great little trade off: I can code a program in clipper in 1/3 the time it takes him to do it in C -- the catch is that my executable (due to bloat in clipper) is three times the size of his. We always decided who gets to code a PC project by evaluating the development speed vs efficiency thing...

[JDT]

gwbasic FTW!

[Terry Yager]

Ghawd uses Assembly Language!

--T

[Yzzerdd]

As for me, I use BASIC for my Apple, and GWBasic on my other vintage computers. I also on occasion use QBasic, but very seldom.

[Druid6900]

Yes, Terry, my son, I do. Nothing beats machine code for down, dirty and FAST

[atari2600a]

Wait, something doesn't seem right about this, let's see who Druid REALLY is... *rips off Druid's mask* *gasp* Old Man Jenkins!!??!?!?!

I got bored & dissasembled Super Mario Bros. today. I was looking at it, &, thankfully, I understand most of the opcodes & what they where doing! At this rate, I should be able to program an Atari 2600 game by the end of the year! (NES not likely, as the architecture of the GPU is a bit more complicated, & plus I'd have to learn how to make use of those 22 memory-mapped registers)

[NicolasF]

I use COBOL2 under z/OS 1.4

[80sFreak]

I tried to get into C, but it just seemed too limited.

C is limited?!?!!!! :shock: That is like saying the reason you don't have any cheddar in a cheese shop is because you don't get much call for it.....

Cheers,

80sFreak

[80sFreak]

At this rate, I should be able to program an Atari 2600 game by the end of the year! (NES not likely, as the architecture of the GPU is a bit more complicated, & plus I'd have to learn how to make use of those 22 memory-mapped registers)

Now you can *really* program the Atari 2600 with BASIC (http://bataribasic.com/)!

Cheers,

80sFreak

[carlsson]

I know some RPG, as well. I'm not great with it, but I know enough to be dangerous. Would that be considered "Mainframe" for the purposes of this poll?
That seems plausable. I went to a job interview last year, and the boss asked me, half joking if I knew anything about RPG. They had a potential client who had some really old system written in RPG that needed a rehaul. This consultant firm in question already had more clients than they could handle, so they simply turned down this customer due to their lack of skills and it would not be worth learning it or hire in an expert.

[atari2600a]

Now you can *really* program the Atari 2600 with BASIC (http://bataribasic.com/)!

Cheers,

80sFreak

LOL, It'd probably use up the whole kilobit of memory in the RIOT before it even draws some simple text!

[80sFreak]

LOL, It'd probably use up the whole kilobit of memory in the RIOT before it even draws some simple text!

Errrgh... Did you actually *GOTO* the website I linked to? This is not the old Atari BASIC on a cartridge. You do the programming on a PC where it is compiled and then you can run that binary on an emulator or the real thing. According to the site, its routines have been highly optimized.

Cheers,

80sFreak

[atari2600a]

Yes, I went to the website & everything, but still, if you have only 1 kilobit to work with, there's still not much you can do!

[SwedaGuy]

I went to a job interview last year, and the boss asked me, half joking if I knew anything about RPG. They had a potential client who had some really old system written in RPG that needed a rehaul.

That doesn't surprise me, actually. Since RPG has always been the defacto standard for IBM's AS/400 and its children, there is an awful lot of RPG code out there. Our accounting system is written in native environment RPG with visual extensions available. Rock solid system, will probably run for 20 or 30 more years...

In fact, there are so many RPG accounting packages available that it took me almost 2 years of reviewing to find the right price/performance mix...

[bbcmicro]

Long live BBC Basic :smile:Hooray!

I'll be honest with you all, I can't program for toffee. I can make BBC Basic do what I want so long as it is text based (I made a text based game once, holey as a colander).

I will however have to learn pascal or delphi (I can't remember which syllabus for which college I applied to) come september as part of my A level computing course.

Oh, I am still looking into PIC assembley too. Not got much to show for it yet though.

[carlsson]

Atari: With Batari Basic, you get an executable that you can burn to a EPROM (or mount cartridge image in the emulator) or perhaps load with help of a CuttleCart or whatever they are called. The little amount of RAM you have available is used as workspace, not storing the actual program.

[atari2600a]

*sigh* I KNOW! I'm just saying, that w/ 128 bytes of memory, AND code that isn't as efficient as hand-coded ASM (Although if you program the interpreter REALLY well, I wouldn't believe it'd be impossible to get close), running at just 1.19MHz, it's still not going to run very well! Just like programming something on BASIC on anything else, except probably faster in this case as it's reading from a ROM instantly rather than reading from a disk, storing to RAM, & THEN running it, & also because this would be compiled & not interpreted instantly.

[carlsson]

Last time I checked, Batari does not bundle an interpreter with the program. Instead it compiles the code into human readable assembly code that is up to you to further hand optimize before you assemble it into a binary. Indeed on these systems a compiler will never generate as tight code as you could manage by hand, but I believe you get a good head start with a driver. I don't know how many bytes of RAM the supplied driver uses though.

[atari2600a]

Ah, it generates the ASM source? NOW I give it slightly more credit, although I still say that it'd just be too much of an enabler if it already requires you to know 6502 ASM, & the STELLA & RIOT architecture.

[carlsson]

Well, I'm sure it would be excellent for someone like me, who already speaks 6502 quite well and has experience in programming other systems where you don't have to watch where you put your tongue all the time. I don't know how much of the Stella and RIOT you need to study to use it, but probably it helps if you are aware of what the hardware can and can't do. I haven't followed AtariAge forums for a while, but I remember most newbies posting their great game concepts failed on the point where they didn't recognize what was feasible and approximate difficulty level if it was theoretically doable at all.

If you're seriously considering programming for the 2600, I don't see what is wasted by spending a Saturday afternoon with this Basic package to check what it can do and how it does it. As I wrote, a few games in the MiniGame compo last year were developed with help from Batari Basic, perhaps extensively hand optimized. It seems to have filled its purpose, giving aspiring Atari 2600 programmers an easier way into the scene. From there one can study the technical details and one day use Basic only to draw up half functional prototypes.

[SwedaGuy]

OK, I'll byte...what is the storage limit for the 6502? If memory serves me, that's an 8 bit processor with a 16 bit address bus? So is 64K the max, or is there some bank select mechanism in place?

I've got a couple of cash registers based on the 6502, but I've never really delved into them to see what makes them tick.

I am, however, working on a 8085 based unit now, and I assure you, a great deal can be accomplished in 64K...

[SwedaGuy]

OK, I just answered my own question...found a data sheet on the 6502...

56 Instructions? I'll need to take a look at that and see how it compares to the intel set.

[carlsson]

Natively the 6502 can only address 64K. By adding external bank switching circuitry, it can be "overcome" which has been proven by various memory expansions and also computers natively having more memory than the CPU can address.

I never counted the number of official instructions. Does that include all the addressing modes, or just the number of unique instructions? In many 6502 implementations, it is also possible to use undocumented ("illegal") instructions. Some of them are supposedly very useful, while others are instable and may lead to the program crashing. Personally I have never studied these undocumented instructions much. Since we were speaking about Atari 2600, which has a 6507 (somewhat stripped down 6502 IIRC), it is worth mentioning that undocumented instructions are highly valued on that system, because they save space and more importantly clock cycles in some cases. I also know sometimes one has to pad out an algorithm with slower or dummy instructions to synchronize it correctly, which is one reason why it probably is the most difficult 6502 based platform to learn machine code programming on.

Gee. Now this thread is slowly getting back on topic again. :-D