Motherboard/Socket cleaning

[JDT]

Could any offer some advice on cleaning a motherboard (from an IBM 5150) I "wiped" it clean with a rag and alcahol, but in trying to get the 256K of onboard RAM to work by reseating it, it looks as if the RAM chip sockets are tarnished or dusty.. so.. how should I go about cleaning them? The whole board could use a good cleaning really. Thanks.

[Druid6900]

You probably aren't going to believe this, but, if you have a dishwasher, place the entire board, populated, chip side down in it for about 5 minutes and then take it out , give it a good shake and then place it, again, chip side down, on an absorbant towel for for a few hours, then stand it on one of the edges for a few more hours.

This will remove all the dust, dirt and all or most of the corrosion. Any remaining corrosion can be taken care of with some non-lubricating contact cleaner and a soft-bristle brass brush and/or a firm toothbrush whose bristles have been cut down to about 5mms.

I've recovered a lot of boards and cards this way and have never lost a single one.

[JDT]

You probably aren't going to believe this, but, if you have a dishwasher, place the entire board, populated, chip side down in it for about 5 minutes and then take it out , give it a good shake and then place it, again, chip side down, on an absorbant towel for for a few hours, then stand it on one of the edges for a few more hours.

This will remove all the dust, dirt and all or most of the corrosion. Any remaining corrosion can be taken care of with some non-lubricating contact cleaner and a soft-bristle brass brush and/or a firm toothbrush whose bristles have been cut down to about 5mms.

I've recovered a lot of boards and cards this way and have never lost a single one.

I do believe it, but unfortunatly *I AM* the dishwasher ;) Any other suggestions?

[carlsson]

Maybe you can hand wash it with water and detergent?

[JDT]

Maybe you can hand wash it with water and detergent?

I could... with a toothbrush & dish soap? laundry detergent?

[ahm]

Yes, but not very much soap. Rinse with distilled water. Let dry thoroughly. Inspect. And possibly repeat.

[JDT]

Yes, but not very much soap. Rinse with distilled water. Let dry thoroughly. Inspect. And possibly repeat.

perhaps a dumb question... rubbing alcahol? instead of water, as it evaporates?

[Druid6900]

Dish soap, any kind, as it is formulated to leave no residue.

I'd hate to think what laundry soap would do.

You can just let it drip-dry as in the dish-washer instructions, just make sure you rinse it thoroughly and place it in the positions I mentioned to drain all the water out of sockets and other cavities.

Normal hot tap water shouldn't hurt the G10 epoxy the board is made out of.

[JDT]

Dish soap, any kind, as it is formulated to leave no residue.

I'd hate to think what laundry soap would do.

You can just let it drip-dry as in the dish-washer instructions, just make sure you rinse it thoroughly and place it in the positions I mentioned to drain all the water out of sockets and other cavities.

Normal hot tap water shouldn't hurt the G10 epoxy the board is made out of.

I used warm water and toothbrush, waiting for it to dry, i cleaned the whole board, every chip was removed. The board will sit in front of a fan over night, at least.

[NathanAllan]

perhaps a dumb question... rubbing alcahol? instead of water, as it evaporates?

I've found that alcohol is okay for small cleanups, but it tends to dry out the plastics and things that need that little bit of moisture. I guess you mean dunking the whole thing in alcohol? That's what I was thinking.

Nathan

[JDT]

I've found that alcohol is okay for small cleanups, but it tends to dry out the plastics and things that need that little bit of moisture. I guess you mean dunking the whole thing in alcohol? That's what I was thinking.

Nathan

No, I just meant using it with the toothbrush as I did the water.. got a LOT of crap off the motherboard today, Im hoping that helps with the RAM issue, it wont recognize anything in banks 1, 2 or 3... but the soldered on RAM worked fine...

[Yzzerdd]

Seriously? This thread was just getting juicy and WHAM! End of it. What ever happened to that board? Did it live to see another day outside of the local dump? By the way, if you don't have a dishwasher, you could fill the sink with hot water and some dishsoap(out dishsoap in while filling, make it all bubbly) and fill the sink up to the top with really hot water. Then, while holding the board with a nice grip, put the top portion in the water. Shake vigorously for 5 minutes, getting as little as possible water on the top. Take it out, drain the water, procede with draining.

I just HAD to bring the thread back before it died.

--Ryan

[pianoman72]

I am thinking to try cleaning an old 386 motherboard which I just purchased from Ebay, using Druid's described method above.

I had a couple of questions before I proceed though:
1. The motherboard contains populated system ram and CPU; do I need to take them out before cleaning it in the dishwasher? I know I can leave the cache memory inside, as Druid suggested.
2. Is it advised to use dishwashing liquid when using the dishwasher, or just simple water?

Thanks for all the help!

[Druid6900]

I haven't found that leaving the board populated causes any damage. Component side down is the best position.

I also usually uses a few drops of dish washing detergent (as opposed to dishwasher detergent) as the former doesn't leave any residues. Not too much though as that stuff foams up pretty damn good and has a nasty habit of coming out the steam exhaust vent of the dishwasher. 1/2 a dozen drops should do a good job.

One wash cycle and one rinse cycle should be the extent of the process though, then a good shake back and forth (again, component side down) and a few hours on each of the edges as close to vertical as possible.

[Terry Yager]

I also usually uses a few drops of dish washing detergent (as opposed to dishwasher detergent) as the former doesn't leave any residues. Not too much though as that stuff foams up pretty damn good and has a nasty habit of coming out the steam exhaust vent of the dishwasher. 1/2 a dozen drops should do a good job.

Yes, a little too much and you'll rapidly bury your entire kitchen in suds. Cascade or Jet Dry helps with the residue problem as well.

--T

[pianoman72]

Thank you all, I appreciate your inputs. I will do my best to carefully clean the motherboard, and hope it will work afterwards.

[ScrappyLaptop]

Since we're on the topic. Over the years I've come across quite a few boards that had soldered-on NiCads. Now, of course replacing them is no big deal, but what is the best way to neutralize and completely remove the corrosion on the ones that didn't have the batteries clipped before long term storage (i.e., almost all of them)? I've seen '386's where there is a bit of the blue and white fuzz (crystalization) on the battery and board, where the through-hole is, but then it seems to seep, insidiously along the traces, visible only by a slight discoloration, finally popping back up again in the first 10 or 20 contacts of the first few ISA slots. Older boards get hit, too; I had a 8-bit Six-Pack that had a similar problem; the corrosion appeared to travel along the wires between the board and the external battery pack, emerging on the connector and pins of the board.

The best I've been able to come up with is a weak bicarb solution followed by lots of brushing with distilled water, but this only takes care of the surface. Any ideas? Are these boards doomed? It's not just non-vintage boards although even the '386's will someday be collected and cherished by someone...if they survive!

[Druid6900]

I've found that a thick paste of baking soda and water, slathered on and left to dry will follow the sulphite trail and then brushing it off with a brass-bristle brush and several applications of denatured alcohol over the affected area.

[Dwight Elvey]

Hi
Make sure it is dry after cleaning. Put a little DoweCorning #4 grease
on the pins. If the sockets aren't brocken inside ( common for may of
the older ones with the bent clips ).
I also used automotive silicone grease but the DC#4 is better quality
and cost about the same.
Dwight

[Druid6900]

In case anyone is interested, today I ran 2 IBM model M keyboards and 5 AT/XT switchable keyboards through the dishwasher (process described above and in about 3 other threads) and not only did they come out squeaky clean, they all worked perfectly with no lose of decals or anything.

Water temperature was 110F and cleaning agent was ordinary dish washing detergent.

[Dwight Elvey]

Hi
After cleaning get some Dowe Corning #4 silicon grease and
put it on the fingers.
It will make better contact and the grease will keep oxides
from degrading the contacts over time.
I've used tubes of automotive silicon grease with good results
but the pros us DC#4.
Dwight

[Terry Yager]

Hi
After cleaning get some Dowe Corning #4 silicon grease and
put it on the fingers.
It will make better contact and the grease will keep oxides
from degrading the contacts over time.
I've used tubes of automotive silicon grease with good results
but the pros us DC#4.
Dwight

I like DuPont 111 Compound, or even Engine Buildup Lube (available at any automotive store).

--T

[JDT]

Seriously? This thread was just getting juicy and WHAM! End of it. What ever happened to that board? Did it live to see another day outside of the local dump? By the way, if you don't have a dishwasher, you could fill the sink with hot water and some dishsoap(out dishsoap in while filling, make it all bubbly) and fill the sink up to the top with really hot water. Then, while holding the board with a nice grip, put the top portion in the water. Shake vigorously for 5 minutes, getting as little as possible water on the top. Take it out, drain the water, procede with draining.

I just HAD to bring the thread back before it died.

--Ryan

Sorry, havent checked on this thread in a while, after a good washing and extended drying time. I was able to populate the ram chips, and spend a few hours picking out the bad ones by following the memory error codes. The current state of my 5150 is 100% fully operational =)

[tezza]

Well, the SEARCH function is a useful device in forum software as it bought to light this thread which almost answers all my questions.

This crate of old apples (http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/showthread.php?t=12135) certainly needs some cleaning. I've worked on IIe platinum and Europlus with compressed air, a brush , electronics solvent and elbow grease. They look sparkling now but it was hard yakka.

I now have a load of mouse dropping and pee-littered, dusty and (and in many cases rusty) unbranded and Rx-8800 (apple clone) cases and circuitboards. Although manual cleaning gives you a kind of loving, tactile bond with your vintage micro, :) the task in this case is daunting!

So the dishwasher it will be, and perhaps not just the apple clones. However, I'll blow the loose dust off, shake out the mouse dropping and check to see if any work first (estimated probablility 1000:1)

A question though. Druid mentions 10 mins or so in the dishwasher. My automatic one only has a minimum cycle of 45 minutes. Does extra washing do any harm? The state of some of these boards, they look as if they will need the full 85 minutes on super-heavy-duty cycle!

Actually two questions? How about the keyboards? Can these be dumped in the diswasher too? I suspect it probably depends on the type, as I successfully washed a PC keyboard in the dishwasher a few years ago, and also successfully wrecked one later (a different type) by doing the same thing! :o

Ok, a third question now I think of it. How about these old clone PSUs in the dishwasher? None have fans or moving parts? Somehow the thought of ANY moisture remaining in something that will be wacked with 240v has me a little concerned. I suspect this is a no-no? Any experience with this?

Tez

[Druid6900]

The extra time shouldn't hurt anything as long as you don't use Heat Dry. Thing is, you want the board to be sitting on-edge in the dishwasher so the water washes over them, not sits on them.

Keyboards, same thing, but, it you can tip them a little so that the keycaps point a little upwards, it will wash the keycaps better without filling the underneath of the caps. If on-edge = 90 degrees, you want 105 degrees.

As for the power supplies, yes, I've don those too and most Apple and clone supplies have ventalation slots. If they are all on one surface, you want that surface down so water drains out. It they are on opposite sides, then one of those suraces down.

Remember, dish-WASHING soap, NOT dish-WASHER soap and not too much at that or you will be cleaning up suds for a couple of hours LOL

AND, remember the rotating drying thing. This will ensure that any water trapped on an edge will eventually run off.

[tezza]

ok, a couple of apple clone motherboard and cases have been through the wash.

The motherboards. No problem. The cases? Well.....Even though these cases had heavy duty dirt maybe it wasn't a good idea to use the heavy duty cycle. Here is what happened to one of the pop top lids

http://www.classic-computers.org.nz/blog/images/08-09-08-too much heat in the wash.jpg

Yes, distorted out of shape completely. Opps...

Funny thing is, the other clone case (and top) that went through in the same wash was perfect! No sign of distortion at all. It was from a different manufacturer though.

Obviously due to the differences in the type of plastic.

Tez

[billdeg]

The whole idea that you're attempting to clean these is commendable....good luck. If you're going to use a dishwasher, do one system at the time starting with the worst (nothing to lose) machine. I would disassemble as much as you can so that you get a complete dry fastest. I have washed plastic chassis in the dishwasher with no apparent harm.
bd

[Druid6900]

Yeah, I can't say that I've ever experienced that problem, even using 55C water temperature.

It COULD be that it just bent around a stress fracture if it softened a little or they didn't put enough hardener in the plastic when it was made.

I have Apple ][ clone cases where one part of it has yellowed completely and the other part is still white.

[tezza]

The whole idea that you're attempting to clean these is commendable....good luck.

Yes. You call it commendable, Annette calls it obsessed! :)

Tez